Overcoming Outrage: Conversation with David Beckemeyer

David Beckemeyer 

Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand. The way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something right now. [00:00:55] Today, we are speaking with David Beckemeyer. David has a podcast it is Outrage Overload. David, could you please introduce yourself? Let people know just a little more about you, please. [00:01:10] David Beckemeyer: Yeah, hi. Hi folks, I'm David Beckemeyer. As noted, I have that podcast Outrage Overload and, uh, a lot of people seem to mishear me and they think I said outrage overlord, which I've kind of just embraced that. And you can call me the outrage overlord now, but yeah, the podcast is actually Outrage Overload. So yeah, I'm, I'm a retired tech guy who's one of those guys out there, you know, [00:01:31] um, like a lot of other people kind of on the, out in the political world and trying to chat with everybody online and everything and convince them my way was the right way of thinking and everything else. And, you know, and then watching TV news and all that and getting more and more, you know, angry all the time and mad at everything. [00:01:47] And so kind of eventually, and I saw I wasn't the only one. I saw friends and family kind of disconnecting with each other and getting in fights over stuff online and in real life and sort of just took a step back from the whole thing and said, There's something going on here. And, and that led me to the path of, a podcast seemed like an interesting way to talk about this subject. [00:02:06] And I'm kind of a geek so I like to geek out with smart people. And, and so I decided the way I would do that is I would have scientists, you know, talk to me about, come on the show. I'd look up scientists with research in this area, because as I started looking, I saw there's a lot of people looking at this. [00:02:22] I'm not the only one. And so I would have enough scientists, and researchers, and authors, and things like that kind of tell me, you know, come and tell us about, like, what's going on here? Why are we like this? What can we do about it? You know, and maybe we can find a way to be a little less stressed out and maybe not be so mad all the time. And maybe accept our, our adversaries, that they're human beings. [00:02:45] Ed Watters: Yeah. It is kind of outrageous where we are but I like the quote that you have, outrage porn. It's kind of, it, it really defines what we're in right now, especially with the political thing, you know, we have outrage everywhere. But when we look into the, into today's political field, I feel like we're back in the third grade. And a lot of this is because we're unwilling to educate ourselves about the issues that we want to so passionately defend. What's your take on that? [00:03:28] David Beckemeyer: Yeah, for sure. I think that, you know, you kind of nailed it there. I mean, I think that the outrage, so yeah, the outrage is definitely not only in politics but it's kind of easy to sort of see in politics, right? So it's a great sort of prototype to talk about. And the outrage porn thing is, I didn't invent that term, [00:03:44] I found it. I think somebody from New York Times, um, came up with that. And, um, you know, and I kind of use it in a broader definition than they did. They were kind of mostly talking about online, but it's something that happens in real life. It's on TV news, it's in political campaigns, and other places. And I like it because it's got the outrage part. Which is this media and messaging that's trying to get us outraged, they're trying to get us angry, or they're trying to fire up emotions. And, and those are often anger and fear and that kind of thing [00:04:11] and ultimately that can also turn into outrage. And then I love the porn side of it because we're actually sort of addicted to this, right? We're, we're addicted to going to news that kind of feeds us the story. We're, we want, we kind of want to hear, we like hearing about how the other side is doing something crazy that just makes us mad. [00:04:29] We actually sort of want that because it makes us feel sort of morally superior and that we made the right choice of picking the team that we did. So I sort of love that term. And yeah, you're right that a lot of it is. We don't want to be educated or, you know, we don't realize that we're, we're hurting ourselves, right? [00:04:45] It feels good in the moment, all those things, but often, but it's not good for us long term. And we, we feel it too after a while. I mean, we all have to admit being angry all the time isn't fun, being outraged all the time isn't fun, it's not good for our health. You know, there's a lot of things about it and we're not getting anything done either, [00:05:00] right? You just going online and yelling isn't really helping anything. Uh, there's lots of studies that show nothing changes really from that behavior, right? So, you know, there's, there's these short term little wins from it, but we get the, we, we get the brain juice, but we don't get much long term benefit from it. [00:05:15] So, yeah. And getting educated is what it takes and is, is a big step, right? And, and, um, if you want to be active, you know, uh, if you want to be an advocate of some sort for these causes you care about, just yelling online isn't going to get you anything. And even just being a single person is, is hard to do anything. [00:05:32] So what I'm trying to do also with this is kind of build a community about this. Like, it's pretty hard for me to go and tell my politician, Stop doing this. But if we, as a group, start to say, Hey, we all want this to stop and we go together, then we sort of become a threat, for lack of a better term, where they have to kind of pay attention to us. [00:05:49] Say, We're not going to, we don't want this anymore. So I'm trying to build a community and create that cascade effect where we can actually have this change. Because like I said, if I just go out there and yell, I'm the only one. Everybody, there's so many incentives for them to do it the other way that until there's more of us telling them to stop, they're just going to keep doing it. So that's kind of where I'm headed. Like, I'm just part of that. I'm not the only one in this space, but I'm trying to be part of that sort of coalition to make that happen. [00:06:16] Ed Watters: It's important, there's, there's a shift occurring right now. And I've witnessed raw rage going into actually thinking about things and there's less combativeness going on in certain areas of the internet, that's a start. You know, once, once we stop closing the doors off and allowing people the space to express themselves, and learning to express ourselves is hard to do it in the proper manner. It took years for me because I was caught up in that emotional drama, that divisional tactics you, you kind of highlighted there a little bit. [00:07:13] I remember back before there was this 24/7 news cycle, a lot of people were into their own day to day lives a lot more than into everybody else's lives out in the galaxy now. Because it's turned into world news now and everybody's hyped all the time. What's your thought on too much information overload? [00:07:45] David Beckemeyer: Yeah, for sure. I mean, exactly. I mean, one of the, you know, we've sort of lost local news and local channels and things like that a lot. We sort of, it's all national or international now. So yeah, we, we, we find ourselves caught up in these national, international things that have a lot less impact on our direct lives. [00:08:03] And we don't even know what's going on at the town council, the city council, or something nearby that probably has a lot more impact, you know? The potholes down the road, and things going on in your school, and things like that. And, and so, yeah, it's kind of, but you know, for those national stories, that's what they want to do. [00:08:17] They want to pump, Well, we've got these seven national stories, we're just going to talk about that all day. And literally all day, like you say, 24/7, right? We're just going to circle around these same seven things. We're going to find the most outrageous things we can find and we're going to say them over and over and over with every host we have all day long. [00:08:33] So, yeah. We're, it's absolutely, you know, it's kind of a, you know, it's not, it's information, but it's kind of noise, right? I mean, it's not always misinformation. It sometimes is depending on sort of your news sources, but I wouldn't even blame misinformation at this point. I'll just call it just a lot of noise, right? [00:08:51] I mean, it's the loudest stories and the most titillating things, and they're just repeated over and over. Um, yeah. And we're losing sight of a lot of things that make a lot more sense. And we're also losing touch even in just local, um, just a community, right? In our neighborhoods and, and staying in touch with folks that maybe look at the world a little differently than we do. [00:09:12] And we have a hard time with those conversations now because they don't have much practice with it. And we've sort of been spun up, that we're kind of just like a spring coiled up and the first time somebody says something, we're going pop, you know, and we're just gonna, just jump out at it. We have a hard time just listening for a minute and, and seeing where people are at and accepting that and taking it and, you know, realizing that there's more than, almost everything has more nuance than we think it does. [00:09:40] And, and that is a challenge for our brains cause there's, we sort of like nice and black and white answers to things. And most, most things, especially these ones that are sometimes the most hotly contested, are more nuanced than that. There probably is more than one way to look at it. Um, you know, it's not necessarily that you're wrong [00:10:00] or not wrong, but you might be wrong. But it's more that the other person is human and has a real perspective and came to their conclusion in a similar way to you did, [00:10:09] uh, that you did. But they got there, you know, they ended up at a different place, but they used the same kind of, even though we have a hard time believing, it's so obvious to us, we have a hard time believing that they took a logical step to get where they did because they didn't land where, where we landed. [00:10:22] So all of those things, you know, combined to just make this a really challenging situation. But yeah, you're absolutely right. We're just getting inundated with like, I would say, you know, a lot of noise. And, and there's information in there, probably, but they're almost never giving us the full story, no matter which news sources we're using. They're always kind of leaving stuff out and presenting a picture and a narrative that they want to present, and a lot of that has to do with making us mad. [00:10:47] Ed Watters: Yeah, I agree with that. You know, I'm kind of disheartened at how our politicians, our leaders, our very core of our society has kind of taken advantage of their positions in a, in a way. And they know that if there's division, the emphasis is not directed at them as much. [00:11:18] So I think that we really have to pay attention to who we are electing as leaders. And like you said, it's, it's more granular, it's local. This is your school board, your mayor, you know, the, the sheriff, all of these local things, they're going to affect our lives much more. And a lot of people are just skipping over that. [00:11:49] So I, I think we really need more people talking about focus and coming together, even with our disagreements. Disagreements and differences built America to what it became. And if we allow everyone to tell you what to think, I think that's dangerous. You should actually have your own opinion and be able to stand up to why you feel that that's your opinion without being challenged or feel threatened about why you feel that way. What's your thought on that? [00:12:35] David Beckemeyer: There's a lot to unpack there, there's so much. I could go down many different paths. But yeah, well, so, um, yeah, and, and, you know, and, and I'm not a podcast that's out there, my message isn't to say everybody should sort of meet in the middle somewhere and we all become sort of moderates or centrists or something like that. [00:12:50] I'm really all about sort of disagreeing better. And, and something you said at the beginning of that was, that this is kind of what America is founded on. This idea of disagreement and that requires diverse opinions and diverse perspectives on things. And we're sort of in this mode now where everybody has to win. [00:13:08] Like, I have to win my argument every time. And it's almost existential if I don't win on every conversation I have. And, um, you know, and that's, and, and so there's no room for a dialogue really because it's win or, win or nothing or, or, you know, and there's just no room for a conversation. [00:13:25] You're not letting any information in because you've already made up your mind and the only outcome is I win. And so, yeah, we have to get better at, you know, be better at disagreeing and we have to get, and we have to be ready to sort of not always go into it like a win/lose battle, but, you know, an understanding. [00:13:47] Let's, let's work on, let's take this from a little bit different perspective. Instead of saying, I have the right idea, you have the wrong idea, and I'm going to convince you my way is right, let's look at this as, why do you wanna look at this thing and come away with this different answer than I do? Like, why do I look at it differently? [00:14:03] Let's get, let's work together to solve that puzzle. Let's, let's, let's work on that like it's a puzzle and try to understand why we came to a different place. And let's work on that puzzle instead of I need to convince you to think like me. And we're not, like, we're not equipped for that at this point because we've sort of just been told you're right, they're wrong, always look at it that way. [00:14:22] And, you know, in the beginning you talked about politicians and I just wanted to note on that, that, that they're absolutely, you know, sort of letting us down. Um, they, it's obviously easier for, their life is much simpler if they can create these very black and white narratives. The other side's bad, the other side's evil, and I'm, you know, our side is great. [00:14:40] That's way better for them. It's a much simpler messaging, it's much simpler campaigning. So of course they, they like that, right? And, but it's not a realistic view of the world, right? It's not how things work. Plus it's not even how government, you know, needs to work, you know, at least a, a, a, a Democratic Republic like we have, or a Constitutional Republic like we have. It requires, and it's, you know, and many scientists have told me this, that it's very counter to our biology, right? [00:15:05] I mean, we're, we were, our brains are sort of set up to be tribal and, and to, to work like that. So, uh, what, what our founders set up is actually really hard. Like, it's a lot of work to do it because you have, in order for our Constitutional Republic to work, you're going to have to sometimes work with people that you strongly disagree with [00:15:26] right? And that is really hard. And we've all, you know, and, and, and we've really lost, as a nation, we've lost it, as, as, as individuals, we've lost it. And, and we don't even appreciate it now, right? We don't, we almost, um, we incentivize our, our leaders to behave that way to where they, there's no, they don't give an inch ever. [00:15:47] And they're always constantly telling us how bad, so we've told them to do that. We, you know, and, and so it's, it's a, it's a dance, we're doing a dance with them. And, and, you know, what we had to start doing is incentivizing them working together sometimes. We're not always going to get our way and either, the other side is not always going to get their way. But [00:16:06] you can't make progress if you're, if every battle line is a sort of death march or a death, you know, call that's either, either live or die on this. And you just won't make any progress because it's going to be this swing side, I'll get two extra votes. Next swing side, you'll get two extra votes. And it's just this back and forth that, that's very hard to make progress in. [00:16:25] And, and the problem now is that, that politicians are actually punished. You're seeing this over the, especially over the last, you know, five-ten years, but it's been going on longer than that when you talk to the experts. But it's really obvious more now that politicians are getting punished if they're willing to talk to the other side. [00:16:41] You know, it's like, this is a weakness. You see this, people getting, you know, just resigning because it's like, Well, everyone's telling me like, you know, I'm just fed up with it. I can't do it. The people that, that were willing to compromise sometimes, or at least just have a conversation even. Now, if, if our, if somebody on our side, one of our representatives dares to have a conversation with somebody on the other side, well, I'm sorry, they're just, uh, you know, they're, uh, you know, they're an apostate and I need to kick them out, right? And that's just, we need to stop doing that because it's not good and it's not gonna, it's not productive. And it's not good for our long term survival, our, our democracy, right? [00:17:16] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's right. You know, a lot of my observation is that it's become a political theater. And the, the person that can tear up the most or, uh, insult the most, they get the most views and that brings in more money. And, you know, this, this mentality that that's the proper way to do business in our sacred government halls, I really think that it's a disgusting way of looking at things. I'm proud of what our founders built and I really think that the mechanism is there to ensure everybody's equality. And I think even our justice department has been slipping on that. And with the, uh, COVID recently, I think a lot of people had time to reflect. So, I think there might be a pivot coming back to the American mindset. What you, what do you think about that? [00:18:30] David Beckemeyer: Well, I'm not seeing it, so, so maybe you are. But, uh, you know? I mean, I'm not seeing that pivot, but I, but I do, I, I hope that kind of thing is coming. I mean, I feel like a lot of people had a chance to, um, you know, kind of spool themselves up. I mean, I mean, the, the, the COVID sort of pandemic situation and lockdowns and things like that were sort of another catalyst. And some of the things that, the ways I saw people I know, um, family and other friends and stuff sort of impacted by that was another sort of catalyst for starting the podcast. Because it, again, became another anchor point for sort of politicization of, of everything. [00:19:09] And, and, uh, you know, there was so many failures, you know, and it's another one of these examples of an extremely nuanced problem, very complicated problem, you know? And it sort of turned into this battle of camps. Like if you're in that camp, everything's, everything they say is right. And if you're in this other camp, everything they say is right. [00:19:26] And that, that simply wasn't right. There's fault to go around all over the place of how this was mishandled. And, and some of it is, some of it's innocent. It was mishandled, but it's innocent. Some of it was probably a little malicious, right? Some people started to take advantage of this politicization, but there's some of both. [00:19:41] And, you know, and, and so complicated that we like, again, we come back to that, we sort of like these simple black and white things. I say, you know, Anthony Fauci was always right. So everything, if you don't agree with him, you are always wrong. Donald Trump was always right and if you don't agree with him, then everything, you know, then you're totally wrong. [00:19:57] And this is obviously a simplified picture of the world that's, [00:20:00] that's not right. Or Joe Biden or whoever you pick, like, it's not right. It's not how the world works. Everybody was making mistakes. We were scared to death. I think we also lose sight of that too, that people were really scared. And that really changes, [00:20:12] um, you know, that's part of that, makes it harder to bring that, activate that frontal cortex of our brain and that kind of thinking part of the brain. Because we're now, we're, we're sort of, our emotions are activated. So we were scared too and I think we'd have to keep that in mind. And that got, you know, that, that, that contributes to us getting tribal and getting scared and, and, you know, kind of hunkering down in our tribes. So, so, but, but yeah. So, but there is a point about that that is interesting because yeah, people did have some more time to reflect. And the question is, did they do enough self reflection to realize that it's sort of like we're part of the problem. [00:20:50] Ed Watters: That's big. You know, we are the problem because we're unwilling to have the deep conversations. We'd rather skip over it, uh, send it to the next bill or whatever. There's, there's always an excuse or reason. But, you know, looking at the political landscape right now, I'm seeing a third party candidate, the Kennedy Candidate coming in and stirring the pot. And this is what I'm pointing out when I say I see this turning point, because there's actual emphasis being placed on, Hey, what is happening is not right. And you're ignoring me, you're not accepting me, I need to do this, this way. And a lot of people are actually hooking on to that. I, I see some upset possibilities here. So, it's an interesting landscape that we live in at this present time. What's your thought on the Kennedy upset? [00:22:02] David Beckemeyer: Yeah, I think it's interesting. It's an interesting, as you say, it's kind of an interesting observation. And I think you, you, you, you kind of hit on something there too. I think that's important in this is that, you know, in some ways, the fact that everybody's mad and everybody's kind of uncomfortable with it is a necessary, it's like a necessary part of the process because you won't change it until you get so you're just, hit rock bottom or whatever, [00:22:26] right? And that, that's kind of where the Outrage Overload name comes in, right? We're just so outraged. We're just, it's overload. I can't deal with it now, I'm ready for a change. And that's, and, and I think there's some of that, I think this is also a, it's a similar kind of, kind of mentality or there's a similar concept there with, yeah, like people kind of like, I'm fed up with the status quo. [00:22:48] I'm tired of this side, I'm tired of that side. And, um, and we're looking for some alternatives. And I think, you know, there might be, there might be several of those kind of, um, messages here in this, in this next election cycle. I mean, I'm, I'm certainly seeing a lot more, you know, tension and, and concerns as these, and here we are, you know, we're more than a year away or whatever, but, um, still, but, but it's, it's already starting to heat up. [00:23:14] And I think this is only going to get more so that people are getting more stressed out. They're getting more agitated about it, they're getting more worried about it, you know? And I see it in the, you know, in the, in the listeners, you know, coming back to me with, with questions about this. So I see people being, you know, kind of freaked out, sort of, about the whole thing. And I feel like I'm outside, you know, in the podcast, I try to do it to a degree too, but in offline conversations I've had with, it seems like a lot of people, I'm doing a lot of trying to talk people off a ledge. [00:23:44] Ed Watters: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm kind of giddy at the atmosphere right now because we really need this apple turnover, the apple cart being turned over, if you will, with what's happened in our landscape. But, you know, it's interesting you, you say that your podcast started out of this feeling, and it's similar to the Dead America podcast, feeling dead and worthless, and we're way better than that. What, what got you started into podcasting and telling people your thoughts? [00:24:28] David Beckemeyer: Yeah. Well, it's certainly outside my comfort zone. I've never done anything like this. I'm like a tech nerd guy and behind it, worked behind a desk my whole life. So I didn't have any, this is all outside, this is all new to me, you know, just figuring out the audio and the technology and, and even just the production. And how does the whole thing work? And even just kind of storytelling, and audio storytelling and all that. [00:24:47] So way outside my, my comfort zone. It, it, what I liked about it as a format for what, as I was researching this topic, is that it's a little, it can be more long form. And so, you know, um, I do like forty minute ish episodes. So I'm not kind of, an hour and a half, I'm not Joe Rogan at three hours, whatever. And I'm not, you know, just, but I'm also not sort of the two minute news bite sort of thing you would have on TV. So we can get into more depth, [00:25:11] um, and so you, which is, you know, something I kind of encourage. I'm fine with that. You know, like, you know, the classic media training, the person is supposed to only give you a two and a half minute answer or whatever. And I'm fine with a five or eight minute answer even sometimes, right? I mean, I'm fine, you know, letting them get, get deep. [00:25:27] And that's what, and that's what my audience wants are, you know, that's the audience that's going to listen to my podcast. They've selected that as their, what they want. So, you know, that's fine. I'm not, I'm not trying to pick a different audience, I'm sort of speaking to that audience. And yeah. So that was, that was all new. But, and I thought audio, so I thought audio was a good, good format because of that. [00:25:47] A podcast was a good format because of the length and you can get a little deeper. And the other one is kind of audio because what I've kind of discovered is I could write words forever, nobody reads. I mean, people do, but I think you can reach a lot more people with audio. I mean, I think, people could listen in the car, they can listen while they're cooking dinner and things like that, where they wouldn't read that book, right? [00:26:06] And, or they wouldn't read, if I wrote, you know, every day, a big blog post, you know, no one's, they don't have time to go read those blog posts, but they'll listen to the podcast. And so, you know, and I have to really keep that in mind, this is an audio thing. This is, people aren't here to read, I'm not, you know, sure, I'll send them off to go read the papers and some people will, and I'll send them off to go read the books and some people will. [00:26:25] But that's not what they really want. It's to say, they want to make sure I've covered enough of that book that they've captured the parts that are most important to them. And, and so that's kind of my, my job. And that's why I picked audio, um, as a, as a format, because I think it's, um, it's, it's, it can reach more people and, and it can reach them in a way that maybe can, can stir action, right? [00:26:49] Ed Watters: Yeah. It's more engaging, you know, you can take it with you. And those long drives sometimes. And, you know, I, I came up in the radio land and a talk show was always on. You know, we, we build this kind of like a talk show radio in many cases in the podcast realm, and we can even see a shift in the [00:27:19] culture going to a more long form content. And, and that actually takes a little more in depth thought. And that brings us back to working that cognitive area that is so needed in our world. The more that we can think for ourselves instead of let technology or others think for us, I think that's a big thing. [00:27:51] We, we are ashamed to let our thoughts out anymore, and we really need to let people know that it's okay to express yourself. It's, it's the biggest part of the first amendment. You know, out of the five parts of that first amendment, the freedom of speech, that is the biggest. Because if you can't let people express themselves, you will definitely never know where we are as a society. I think it's so important for freedom of expression. What's your thought on that? [00:28:37] David Beckemeyer: Yeah, no. Absolutely, Ed. You know, I talked, you, you said that, that we're sort of ashamed to give our opinion. I think the other side of it is we're sort of fearful of the reaction, right? So we don't, especially in sort of mixed company or whatever, right? [00:28:50] And, um, and I think that's true, no matter what side you're on, you know? You know, even if you work in your circles, you may be, in some circles, you'll, you'll say certain things, but you know, it's getting to the point where, you know, we're, we're nervous about, uh, about having those conversations. And one place I really see that is, I do, um, a segment I call Street Outrage, where I interview, um, regular, you know, everyday folks about sort of their news habits and things that have happened to them on, on social media and things like that, social media interactions and stuff like that. [00:29:21] And, and I don't, um, you know, I don't push back or I don't try to change anybody's mind. I just want to hear where they're coming from on things. And it's interesting because you see this, I see this very frequently in these, in these conversations that after a little while they sort of go, You know, I said something there that'll, they might even believe, that maybe expected me to react to it or that I was going to find it controversial or whatever. [00:29:46] And maybe I did find it controversial, but they, I didn't react to it and I just listened. I want to hear where they're coming from. And they're so not used to that. They're almost shocked by it, right? It's like, and we need to do so much more of that. Like, I've learned so much from that. In fact, when I [00:30:00] started doing these interviews before I started the podcast, just to kind of understand, just to get a picture of the world a little bit, right? [00:30:06] And I started doing those interviews and at some point I was doing those interviews and I sort of froze the whole project. I'm like, I need to sort of rethink this whole thing because I learned so much because it was an opportunity for me to talk to people, different, you know, generation, you know, generationally in different places on the spectrum and, um, politically on different places in the spectrum. [00:30:23] And, you know, and actually listen, right? And hear what people would say when they're not afraid that you're going to attack them for it. And it was like I said, I had to pause the whole project and rethink it a little bit and say, Okay, I have learned so much in, you know, fifteen, ten interviews, I don't know, some small number of interviews, that I need to pause this whole thing and rethink a little bit. [00:30:41] And I, and I did that. And it really, and I, and I've continued to do those interviews and it's still, it's still the same thing. You really see this change in people as we conduct the interview that they're starting to realize that, Wait, he's not going to like argue with me and he's not going to tell me I'm dumb and he's not going to, you know, all this stuff. [00:30:57] And so, and we just need to be able to do that more because you, like you say, You will not know what people think if they're afraid to ever tell you. Like, no, you can't know because they won't tell you. So, yeah. And, and on the first amendment thing, I mean, I think it's such a hard one because, yeah, we need to be really active about this, Ed, make sure we keep that going. [00:31:17] And it is very hard because it's a fine line, you know, you, you have this, because it's, people can say really hateful things. People can say, you know, there's obviously things you can't say. I mean, you can't, you know, threaten somebody, uh, you know, individually make a threatening remark and things like that. [00:31:34] So there are lines. But where you put that line, and, and, and it gets really, you have to let some really uncomfortable things be out there. You know, and you have to let them sort of, uh, all exist. Like, if you only let, say the, what people might call crazy on this side exist and no crazy countering it, you'll, that'll, that's, that becomes now a propaganda wave, [00:31:59] right? And, and, but like if you look at what we did in America with Nazi propaganda is we turned it around and just put it out there and said, Here's what they're saying in Germany. And, you know, and then you had, you know, regular free press look at that and you had regular people look at that and say, Wow, that sounds really crazy. [00:32:16] But in Germany, there was nobody saying, Wow, that sounds really crazy because you only got the propaganda side, right? So it's, yeah, it's absolutely crucial that we continue to, as difficult as it is and painful and it'll make you mad, but as difficult as, you know, democracy will make you mad because you're going to lose sometimes, [00:32:36] you know? There's a loser's burden that is critical to how America works and how democracies like ours work. Um, and some people hate the word democracy. Oh, we're not a democracy, we're a Constitutional Republic. And that's all true. But one piece of democracy as a more general term is elections, right? And free and fair elections. [00:32:54] And sometimes you're going to lose your free and fair election, right? And the nice thing about America is, you lose, you move on, right? You're going to get another election in a couple of years. So you get another chance, it's not the end of the world. And that's the problem now, a lot of times is we're looking at these elections like an existential thing. Like this person wins, America's over. [00:33:15] And I, and we have to, you know, get out of that mode where every election feels existential. And we just have to get used to once in a while you lose, you move on. You pick up the pieces, you win next, you do it again next time. And every, every loser gets that same opportunity, right? That's part of it. [00:33:30] I'm sorry, I kind of moved from free speech to that. But I think they're sort of related, it's kind of the same thing. Like people are going to say things you really, really disagree with and you find distasteful and you've just got to let it happen. You, it's gotta. It's only, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's part of how, how, what separates, you know, free countries like ours from others. [00:33:53] Ed Watters: That's right. Yeah, that, that's why, you know, these attacks, they're, they're dangerous in many ways. And if we aren't aware of our history, it can sure bite us in the rear because you're going to experience it over and over again. So that's why we have our constitution, it clearly defines how our system works. And what is not enumerated within the constitution, [00:34:27] it always reverts back to the states and to the people. That's the 10th amendment and that's the beauty of our system. And people skim over it because they, they get into a fever of one liners. And I really think that we need to hold our politicians to a higher standard with the information that they are actually running on, putting out. [00:35:02] That, that is critical that, that is, you know, fact checkers, you know, yes, we need fact checkers, but if the person putting the information out hasn't done the fact checks first, that can be pretty dangerous and I see this happening a lot. And we, we've went from informative news to satire news or, you know, opinionated news. [00:35:36] So I think that shift, that's why people are turned on to podcasting like this. They are trying to get away from that opinionated satire type news, and they just want a good conversation with the highlights folded into that conversation. So I think podcasting is, is really going to be one of those mediums that, you know, comes up even more than what it has. [00:36:09] We've seen this climb, a little dip, and now we're going to see a climb again, because people are seeing, after COVID, how useful podcasting really can be. What's your plans for podcasting? [00:36:24] David Beckemeyer: Yeah. I, before we jump there, I did want to add to that, that I saw, and you've probably seen this stat too, and I can't remember now exactly the source, but I saw a source that was saying that, you know, podcasting is now like the most trusted information source for a huge percentage of people. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting you ask. So I just, I just, um, had my first year anniversary and I did a first year anniversary special with the guests that I had on the very first show. And, you know, and so I'm, I'm actually in this kind of, oh yeah, thank you. [00:36:55] And I'm kind of in, yeah, you can play an applause button there. I, so I'm kind of in a reflection mode of the podcast right now. I've got my episodes for the rest of this year and I'm, I'm sort of starting to, working on the next year ones and I have many in the queue that are unedited, [00:37:14] they're sort of just there. But I'm kind of trying to ask myself some tough questions, Do I need to, you know, any, do I need to make any major changes to the show? Cause I've kind of kept the format, sort of the same from day one. And I've certainly learned a lot from improved, you know, interviewing technique and other things since then, but, but yeah, I'm kind of asking myself some of those questions. [00:37:33] Where do I go with the podcast next? I think that there's, I've had great feedback. There's something like, there's thousands of organizations kind of in a, in a roughly, you know, some adjacent spaces, nobody's doing exactly what I'm doing. But there's a bunch of organizations and groups kind of working in this kind of bridge building idea, that's kind of the nomenclature for it. [00:37:51] Um, and I think there's a lot more opportunity for collaboration with some of those. Because we need to, you know, get this message out there, we need to, um, kind of work together. And I think a lot of these organizations are all kind of working independently in silos. And I think that's one place that I somehow want to try to get this podcast more collaborating with a lot of these other organizations that are out there and kind of coming up with ways to do that. [00:38:13] I mean, I'm sort of one person. I don't have a big staff, you know, I'm not an NPR podcaster or anything, I'm doing all this by myself. Just like I suspect you are for the most part. And it's a lot of work. So there's only so many hours to go do all that networking and stuff. But I think that's a big place. [00:38:28] That's kind of my next step is, now that we've got a good foothold, I got some great guests, good feedback on that, I now want to kind of see if there's a way to start doing more collaboration with some of these other organizations that are out there. That was probably one thing I want to do with them. [00:38:42] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's powerful. You know, and the technology that's coming out because of podcasting, it's incredible. And we're going to see another big shift and change in technologies with AI. So I'm really excited about podcasting and where it's going. And the best part is the people. I'm, I'm so interested in the stories that people can bring. [00:39:13] That's the help that our world truly needs. And I think people are so turned off and, uh, excommunicated from social gatherings because of acceptance problems. I think podcasting is really that healing bandaid. I know it's changed my life, it's changed my outlook and I see incredible things coming from podcasting. It's an exciting space, that's for sure. Uh, do you have anything you want to add to our conversation that we haven't touched on? [00:39:57] David Beckemeyer: Well, I think, something just to kind of feed off something you [00:40:00] were just saying there, I mean, um, you know, one of the, in this first year, one of the, you know, one of my main goals was, I think I said something like, Can I touch the lives of like ten people? [00:40:09] I,I set my, you know, I said that seems like a reasonable number. And, and so, and so, um, you know, and so the stories that I've gotten back from some folks, that they've actually changed their behavior and they're happier for it. They're, you know, they're not as stressed out. They're actually more effective in sort of some of the advocacy and things like that they were interested in. [00:40:28] So those are just great stories. I mean, that's probably one of the biggest things. I've had good feedback from guests too. But I mean, the feedback from, uh, so it shows to your point that podcasts can have those kinds of impact, even, even sort of just one dude that isn't very good at it, still figuring it out, can actually have that kind of impact. [00:40:46] And I think the other piece from that, adding onto what you were talking about is, you know, the, I try to participate in as many sort of, um, you know, meetups and other kinds of things among podcasters. And, you know, and, um, I mean, it's just been amazing the folks that I've met and, you know, that I established relationships with. And everybody, I mean, I, when I was first starting one of the, [00:41:05] one of my mentors is a podcaster who's David McRaney, who's had, I don't know, several hundred, I don't know, probably more than that, 3 or 400 episodes, been at this for like ten years, he was so kind and has been a mentor so much for the first, you know, for this first year. And, and, you know, and that I'm a nobody, right? [00:41:22] So he didn't have to do that, but he made time for me and was really great. And he's not the only one, that's just one I'll pick out. But there's, there's been so many folks in this space that are just so kind and helpful. So anybody that's thinking about doing it, like, don't be intimidated. There's so many people that will help you and people just want to help. Even people, I mean, I'm trying to give back as much as I can. I've only been doing this a year, but I'll, I'll give back as much as I can. And there's so many people that are on the same page in this, in this, in this podcasting world. [00:41:49] Ed Watters: And it keeps growing, that, that's the incredible thing. You know, you're, you're doing it, uh, very well, you know, for a year, that, that's incredible how you've got your skills honed in on, you know, conversations and interviews. It's really incredible. So a lot of people don't get past that seventh episode. So you're in that, you know, ten percent crowd. It's, it's quite unique what podcasting can do for us. Uh, I'm excited. Are you involved with like PodMatch or Matchmaker FM at all? [00:42:31] David Beckemeyer: Yeah. Yeah, I am. Um, I just recently sort of got involved with PodMatch and I, you know, talked to Alex San, San, I can never pronounce his name. San Philipo? I think that's right. [00:42:44] Ed Watters: San Philippio? Yeah. Sorry, Alex. . [00:42:51] David Beckemeyer: So, yeah. I can never get it right. We, we're, it's only fair, I don't think, sorry, Alex. It's okay cause I don't think he can pronounce my name either, which I, I, I'm fine with. But yeah. So, uh, you know, Ed, um, and he's been, again, perfect example, here's somebody that's super famous and has all this stuff and very helpful guy. Like he's sincere about wanting to help people. And that's just another example of what we were talking about. [00:43:13] Ed Watters: Yeah. Alicia and Alex are great people and they're more Human-Centric. I've been hearing that being thrown around a lot more and it just fills my heart with joy. Human-Centric, it has meaning. So the more conversations means more Human-Centric nature is being evolved there. So it's exciting what we're seeing in the space, that's for sure. Do you have a call to action for our listeners today? [00:43:47] David Beckemeyer: Well, yeah. I mean, I'd love to. Check out the website outrageoverload.net. Check that out, see if there's anything of interest there. Um, love to see, check out a few episodes, see, see what you think. And even more importantly, email me, gimme some feedback on what you find there, outrageoverload@gmail.com. [00:44:05] And I'm, I, I answer every email I get, eventually. I do my best to get back. But I will get back to everybody, it just might be a little while. But I will definitely respond. And I also pay attention to all that feedback, sometimes too much. I have to go cry to my wife and tell him I got a mean comment, but, but, um, but yeah, no, I really want that feedback and, and would love, love to have it. So if you get a chance, I mean, you know, getting five minutes of your ears is, is like, just, you know, that's like gold to me, right? So that'd be a great, great, great thing if anyone was willing to go check that out. [00:44:37] Ed Watters: Yeah. Criticism, it can help you grow. That's for sure. But, you know, don't, don't ever let it make you podfade, because every story is precious and everybody's voice, it really matters. And together we're very strong. So the best way to contact you is through your website? [00:45:01] David Beckemeyer: Yeah. There's a contact page, I've got, it's all over the website. But you can find at the bottom, there's links to all the socials and all that. There's also a contact page at the bottom of the website, I think it's also up at the top of the website. So, um, if you can't find my contact info, then you haven't been using the internet very long. But it's, because it's plastered all over, over that webpage at outrageoverload.net. [00:45:21] Ed Watters: I like what you're doing, David. I want to say thank you for participating today with us here on the Dead America Podcast. [00:45:29] David Beckemeyer: Yeah. Ed, I really like what you're doing as well and I really appreciate and thank you for having me. Um, you know, making the time for me to come on the show. I think that's fantastic. I, I really like what you're doing. And again, you're another one of these examples of folks out there that are just ready to give back to the community. And I really think that's cool. [00:45:46] Ed Watters: I appreciate that. Thank you, David. Have a good day. [00:45:49] David Beckemeyer: You as well, Ed. Take care. [00:45:53] Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, please share, like, subscribe and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.