Navigating Spirituality and Overcoming War’s Emotional Scars

John Lawyer

[00:00:00] Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand. The way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something right now.

[00:00:55] Today we are speaking with John Lawyer, he is a spiritual guide and a seeker. John, could you please introduce yourself? Let people know just a little bit more about you, please.

[00:01:08] John Lawyer: Sure. I, uh, I live here in North Texas with my wife of twenty years. I, uh, help run an online spiritual community for people, sharing their journeys and such. And I'm also a guide and a coach for anyone looking to kind of align their lives with spirituality and figure things out.

[00:01:28] Ed Watters: Yeah. It's interesting what you're doing and your history, you know, war, a lot of, uh, war in your life. And I kind of want to touch on that quite a bit in our episode today, because I really feel it's needed to understand what it's like during war and coming out of war. I, I remember my father, World War II veteran, and when he came home he brought a bunch of photographs and he kept them tucked away in a footlocker. And there was a lot of depression in my father and alcoholism because of what he witnessed and what he went through at the end of World War II. How does that fit in with you and what's the differences? Because my father, he did not get any, you know, psychological help or anything, that was like a taboo thing. What's different in the system and can you explain to us what it's like to really come out of war with these emotional scars?

[00:02:50] John Lawyer: Yeah. I think that when you're in it, uh, you know, you're, you have this low grade, uh, trauma and anxiety that exists that you probably aren't even aware of. And when you're in it, you don't realize that you're, the water's getting warmer, that it's coming close to a boil, right? You don't see it, you don't know it. And so you're experiencing that, you don't have much context for it. And I, you know, my time in the military, they had stressed people to get help more than they used to.

[00:03:26] And they had some under, you know, this, I joined prior to 9/11, just about a year before 9/ 11 happened. But even, even then, there wasn't much understanding of PTSD. And if you had a security, even back when I was in, in the early 2000s, if you had issues after you'd gone to war, they didn't want you. If you had a top secret security clearance or a secret security clearance, to go talk to anyone, you could have lost your clearance if you did.

[00:03:55] And so even in this modern era, you know, uh, it was, it was frowned upon. Now they're changing, they've changed that over the last twenty years of the war because they started to see the, the impact that it was having on, uh, on soldiers and on the system itself. Because they couldn't get the help they needed and that caused problems in the system.

[00:04:19] And, you know, I think that there is, you know, we support our troops, we, we, we acknowledge what happened to them, you know, but I think there's all this, there's still this bottling up of emotions. There's bottling up of what happened. And I, I think that it's nice that you want to talk about it cause I think that, honestly, my experience coming back after spending twelve out of fifteen years of the first, first part of my adult life, you know, um, no one really did want to talk about it or still doesn't want to talk about it. Because I think it's uncomfortable to talk about, um, that darkness. And I think that when you have a war that goes on for twenty years, I think people feel a little responsible for that, maybe? And then they feel a little guilty and they especially don't want to talk about it.

[00:05:14] Ed Watters: Yeah. Well, you know, our, our good men and women that go over, they go over for a reason and that's to help America, to make it safe. And that's really the context that they go over there for, in the mainstream of it all. And sometimes that gets blurred. No, no nation is perfect. We do some pretty vile things, all's fair in love and war, they say.

[00:05:48] But, you know, in our modern day, we associate with everybody around the world now and everybody kind of gets social with, you know, potential enemies, really. And I, I really look deep into the psychological effects involved in that, because still we are a nation and we need to guard certain secrets and, you know, we have to be on guard. How do we do that and still maintain a superiority around the world?

[00:06:29] John Lawyer: Uh, that's a really good question. As someone who's on a spiritual path, you know, that I, you know, grew up, grew up and come to, came to age in, um, in the machine, you know, uh, the military industrial complex. That's a good question because I very much want to see the humanity in everyone.

[00:06:49] I think that nationalism has some really, uh, complicated and some destructive undertones to it a lot of times. And so when I look at that shared humanity, I think, Oh, that's how I want to live. But at the same time, you look at it spiritually and say that, but at the same time, I'm a very, very much a realist at times.

[00:07:15] We do live in the real world, we occupy this physical space. We have to, um, we have to come to terms with that. And I think that the U. S. does a lot of destruction in the world and has done over the, over, over time, but it does a lot of good in the world too. And I, you know, just, just from, purely from food aid, and, and, and medicine, and just

[00:07:40] everything. And people underestimate the, the might of the U. S. military and the amount of security that probably, you know, we haven't had a war since World War II that's global in nature. And I, I think that there is a lot that, a lot of that has to do with the hegemony of the U. S. and the might of its military.

[00:08:01] Um, so I'm okay acknowledging that, but I think it's, it's complicated to think about it in terms of like humanism and humanity, and spirituality, or even religion versus the practicality of, there's darkness in this world. There's people that want to do bad things. I mean, it's, uh, I'd say that I appreciate the fact that things are usually a lot more gray than black and white.

[00:08:31] Ed Watters: Yeah. I agree with that, and I like how you laid that out very well. Our, our people kind of get stuck on points in time, and then it's there for so long and then they forget. And if we forget history, it's gonna repeat itself. And I think it's critical that we understand the mindsets that we ourselves are responsible for.

[00:09:00] We look at World War II, and Hitler, and the German people, how they idly just kind of absorbed what was happening and went along with it. And if you really look, there's a lot of frightening details in our world today that lines up with those same principles. And they're kind of masked and, uh, kind of have this overshadow effect to them right now, but they're there.

[00:09:34] And the tones and the rhetoric, they're spewing everywhere. All nations are doing it, all leaders are doing it, and all people are really doing it. So I really think, Blessed are the peacekeepers. And I think, uh, if we don't talk about these fears that we all face, we're going to go through those [00:10:00] hard times again. And I think these conversations are critical.

[00:10:05] John Lawyer: Yeah. I think that, I think it's, it's about having a conversation. It's about, and I, I think that one reason things seem so disturbed right now and so on edge, it's because we've let, you know, if I go talk to my neighbor, uh, I have ninety percent in common with him. I want healthcare, I want, I want children to be taken care of, I want safety, I want to have a joyful existence and be happy in my community, I want my community to be united. And, but what we do is we take that ten percent we disagree on and we, we let that just massively over inflate itself to this, as this thing that takes up all of our space and time. And then we're told that we can't get around that because this ten percent is so important. And in reality, that ninety percent is way more important.

[00:11:02] Ed Watters: That's right. Yeah, I like that a lot. So what drives you? What's your motivation to get on and do these conversations and share your experiences?

[00:11:16] John Lawyer: It's just that really. I think when we share, I think perspective is really important. And I think when we, when we can come at the world and the universe and ourselves with different perspectives and we can understand that all these people out there are going to have way different perspectives than us. Then suddenly we, we're more, we're, we have more wisdom, we have more understanding, we have more empathy, and we can understand, and then we can understand that what you believe and what I believe doesn't have to be the same thing, it doesn't. It doesn't have to, to, to match because we all are living our own kind of reality. And, and so that's what drives me, is to kind of make the world a better place but I had to do that by starting with myself.

[00:12:07] Ed Watters: That's huge. You know, if we don't start with ourselves, we can't clean up anything. And all of us have these things that we have to clean up before we can be civilized and associate with people. It took me a long time, I was an angry, mad individual. And I remember, you know, some of these bad things that America has done and what has happened to America.

[00:12:36] And you really have to step back and realize all of this is profit driven. And if, if we consume, we're part of that profit driven mentality. And it's not a bad thing to be profit driven, I, I highly like the idea of the freedom of a free market and, you know, a capitalist society. It, it just gives you so much more structure and inventions come out of this type of society, but the key is we have to let people flourish and that means let them discover who they are. Purpose, you tout this a lot, you have to find your purpose. How do we find purpose in a chaotic world?

[00:13:38] John Lawyer: Yeah. I think that we all, I think we all have our individual unique higher purpose or our dharma. And I think that it is a chaotic world. There's all this noise around us, right? And we look at all these things that we've been told by society that are true, or, or facts, or absolutes, right?

[00:13:59] And, and we're so focused on living that, that, that kind of cookie cutter life that I, maybe we don't know what our purpose is, and so I think we have to search on what it is. You know, my, I, I realized a couple of years ago, my higher purpose was helping people help themselves, you know, find their wholeness that they already have inside or the light that they already have inside.

[00:14:22] And that's my purpose, my, but everybody's purpose is going to be different. And if you don't know it, you should probably ask yourself, Well, I wonder what it is? And then you should search for that. And then when you have it, how do we live it in this noisy, chaotic world you describe? How do we align that purpose with our daily lives? How do we align that with our job? Because we spend so much time at work. So, like, how do we live this, like, aligned, purposeful existence where our purpose matches our love for living?

[00:14:56] Ed Watters: Yeah. You know, I, I believe that purpose is cyclical and it keeps happening to us. At a certain point in your life you might be purpose driven towards one thing and then later in life as we grow and we mature, it turns into something else. So I think purpose can be experienced in many ways through our lifetime. What's your thought on that?

[00:15:30] John Lawyer: I, I 100 percent agree with you, Ed. I think that purpose changes as we change, and I think the, I don't believe in absolutes. I think the only absolute in the universe is change, is the only absolute. And we will always be changing, we're always in motion. And so, I think our purpose will change, our higher purpose, our dharma shifts. You know, when I was, I didn't realize it at the time, but when I was in Afghanistan, I was in Afghanistan for six and a half years consecutively. And I didn't realize it at the time, but I was living my higher purpose then. It was not a real light purpose, there was some darkness to it. I was good at it,

[00:16:06] I was 100 percent like engaged in it. I was working a hundred, 110 hours a week, seven days a week. And I was an extremist as much as the guys that we were after. And, uh, but it was my dharma, it was my purpose at the time. And I, it, and there was darkness there, but I was also keeping people safe and doing something that I thought was worthwhile and, and, uh, and good. So I, yeah, our high, you know, our purpose absolutely changes.

[00:16:36] Ed Watters: Yeah, I remember, you know, during that 9/11 period. I went early to go get recruited, I wanted to go in the buddy system with my buddy out of high school. I met my wife and I fell in love and instead of going up to get the physical and sign the papers, I kind of shifted there and I went to the love land instead.

[00:17:09] But when 9/11 happened, that all crashed. And I felt so threatened and violated. And I really didn't even understand what was happening or why it was happening. But I ran to the recruiter and said, send me over there, you know, I need to get revenge. And, you know, thank God he said, Well, you're kind of too old for this now

[00:17:36] and we can't take you. It's like, well, thank God, you know, because my mentality was so driven because of that fear and that senseless attack and couldn't make sense of anything. So I, I think there's this protection against bad things if, if we allow that protection to happen, if we can take a moment and pause and not let the feelings or emotions drive us so hard. What's your thought on that?

[00:18:20] John Lawyer: Yeah. I think that it's kind of like holding on too tight, you know, that, that there, and it is, there's a, there's, there is fear and I think fear is a very powerful useful emotion and feeling. But I think that our, our ego and our mind that have kept us alive for thousands of years over perform and they kind of over focus on fear and we can get lost in that.

[00:18:44] Ed Watters: Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, so what, what is war and, and can you describe it through your own eyes and how, how has your perception of war changed over time?

[00:19:01] John Lawyer: That's a really good and deep question. I think that I would first say, I'm very apolitical now these days. But I would say that war in and of itself is a political exercise, it's a political endeavor, um, in a lot of ways. Uh, because typically the altruistic reason that we're told that we're gonna go to war often ends up not being the end state of us at war. And so I think that there, So I, I, I think war is that. And I think for me seeing it, like being in Afghanistan, you know, I was in Kuwait for two and a half years,

[00:19:43] I was in Baghdad for eighteen months, and I was in Kandahar for over six and a half years or so. And what I saw in Afghanistan was, you know, it's not that we got beat or, or couldn't win, we didn't want to win. There was no definition of victory, there was [00:20:00] no mission objective other than like, be here and don't die.

[00:20:06] And that's a, you know, that's a, that's a very complicated thing for a young man or woman that are wearing seventy pound vests and in armored vehicles and stuff to, to grope with and to, to come to terms with. And, uh, so what I saw what war really is, is this political endeavor that ends up costing humans that, uh, don't even necessarily have any voice or say or anything about it, on both sides. Whether you're, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're an American soldier, or airman, or marine, or sailor.

[00:20:48] It doesn't matter if you're Taliban. I mean, the Taliban, these guys were just farmers. Like, literally, like, we're talking like, they're just, it's the middle ages with cell phones and cars in Afghanistan, right? And, and they're just living their lives. They're just growing their watermelons, and growing their wheat, and trying to take care of their wife and kids, and their goats, and their, you know, it's just their, their life.

[00:21:14] And I think when you come to terms with the humanity of it, I think that's when you really kind of see war and it's like state. Like that is, it's this complicated thing that is actually not that complicated. It's just really, it's this destructive thing. Often for no purpose, because we lose that purpose.

[00:21:38] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's big. I like that a lot. You know, so, how do we, uh, shift the mentality of people? Because it, it, it seems to be getting worse. I, I, I think the key is what you're doing through shifting the mindset of thinking about war and how we win to how we win ourselves and our mindset, and controlling how we think and feel about each other. I, I like what you're doing. So what's your take on that?

[00:22:15] John Lawyer: Yeah. I think, I think the least selfish thing that we can do in the world is to love ourself, to take care of ourself. It goes back to that cliché of the put your own oxygen mask on before you put the oxygen mask on of someone next to you in the airplane, right?

[00:22:30] You're, you're not good to anybody else if you don't love yourself, if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't think that you're beautiful. Um, and it doesn't matter if you have a wife, or kids, or a husband, or anything else. Like, you gotta love yourself first, you gotta take care of yourself first.

[00:22:47] And I think we don't do that, I think we're actually taught not to do that. I think we're taught, oh, it's heroic to go be a hero, or to go, but we're never taught that it's heroic to take care of ourselves. No one ever teaches us that. And so I think it starts with that, it starts with, with understanding yourself and then say, What are my beliefs? What are my values? And then, and then figure that out and then go from there, you know? That, that's a, that's a starting point.

[00:23:15] Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that a lot. So let's segue into what Kishar is and what your community is about?

[00:23:28] John Lawyer: It's about people sharing their journeys with each other, finding some peace and calm in this digital world we live in. And, and finding that there can be authentic human connections, even when we're remote, just like you and I are having a conversation right now.

[00:23:42] And, and also about helping people. It's a nonprofit and all of the, the monthly subscriptions, all of the one on one spiritual guidance and coaching, all that goes back into helping members and helping each other. And it's about having a place that we can just have a conversation. It's not Facebook, it's not, it's not Twitter,

[00:24:04] it's not Instagram, it's just a place where people can, can talk and then maybe you can see a daily meditation that works for you. Or Hey, a reminder to get outside and move and do something for intentional movement, or to, uh, maybe be a little more accountable to yourself for a goal that you want, whatever. It's, it's all that stuff. And, uh, it's, uh, supposed to be just a warm community.

[00:24:33] Ed Watters: I think that's important. And your wife helped you do this?

[00:24:37] John Lawyer: Yeah. We, we've been married for over twenty years, we actually got married in Kuwait when we were soldiers. And, um, she's, she helps me. Yeah, thank you. She helps me and then another woman who's a good friend of ours that we met in Afghanistan who lives in the Balkans, she helps us as well.

[00:24:57] Ed Watters: Yeah. I, I'm seeing more and more of these community mindsets come about and they are really focused on just that. Uh, more community based, a sense of calming instead of the irateness that we've, we've really been witnessing this and since 9/11 happened. And it's just elevated and elevated and elevated.

[00:25:29] And we really have to find the good men and women that are standing up there voicing their opinions. Because opinions can get you in trouble nowadays and that's just fascinating to me. But we should express them openly, honestly, because I want to know the world around me, I want to know who you are, what you truly are.

[00:25:58] And the only way we can find that out is through these conversations, community gatherings, it's, it's as old as we are. Our mind is wrapped around that sort of scenario. And I think a lot of our struggles are based on, we don't group up in the way we should anymore. We're, we're clicked up instead of community up. What, what's your thought on that mentality?

[00:26:32] John Lawyer: No. I, I think that the more, absolutely, the more we can do to break down, because humans are tribalistic beings. We, we tend to, to, to break off into tribes, we're, we're also herd animals and we like to be social and be together. But then we are also tribalistic, which those kind of go hand in hand, but they kind of don't.

[00:26:52] And it's a, yeah, it's about breaking down those divisions. How do, how do I, uh, get outta my comfort zone? We talk about worldview, right? But the worldview is about having a view of the world, but it's also about having an expanded view that's beyond where you're at. It's about what's, the view that someone else has. And I think understanding that there's all kinds of great human thought out there. We just have to find it, and talk about it, and, and, and share with each other.

[00:27:22] Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that. You have to act locally and it then will spread globally. It's, it's really the way America expanded in the first place. Uh, you know, we, we have kind of lost the family love aspect and it's really time to focus on getting that back. Is there any thing that we've missed that you'd like to cover today?

[00:27:56] John Lawyer: You know, I, I think that, you know, I think we've covered most of it. I think that really it is about, uh, community. I really liked it that, that I think getting back to community, however we can, even if it's in a digital world. And, and also try to do it locally, get to know one another and have conversations, get out there and talk. I think that is a great, such a great message.

[00:28:23] Ed Watters: Yeah. So do you plan on expanding into a podcast eventually? I know you've been asked this, but it is a serious question because I think what you're offering is meant for podcasting. You, you're a tremendous guy on all your podcasts, you'd make a wonderful host and I'd be very interested in listening to some more great conversations out of your mindset.

[00:28:59] John Lawyer: I, I appreciate that, Ed. And it's something I thought about, you know, we, we currently have our YouTube that we do, and I do that solo, but I think I would like to turn it into eventually a place where I could talk to people and have, have these conversations. I think that's, that's where I think the next step is.

[00:29:17] Ed Watters: Yeah, I wish you well in whatever you do. Uh, do you have a call to action for our listeners today?

[00:29:26] John Lawyer: Sure. If, if you're anywhere in life, whether it's your personal life, your, your job, you know, just living your lifestyle, however, and you think you, you might need help, reach out to us. If you're just looking for people to talk to about spirituality or what it might be to you, reach out, it's a, it's universal. Come as you are, whoever you are. And we're at, uh, kishar.org. That's K-I-S-H-A r.org and that's our website. And you can find all of our socials, and our YouTube, and, uh, everything there.

[00:29:57] Ed Watters: All right, John. It's been a pleasure [00:30:00] talking to you. I want to say thank you for the service you've given our nation. And, you know, we all grow past what we've done in the past and all of that. I think intention is everything and what you intend to do is everything. Thank you for your service, thank you for being here on the Dead America Podcast with us.

[00:30:25] John Lawyer: Thank you so much, Ed. And I love that part about intention a hundred percent.

[00:30:33] Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.