Speaker A [0:04] A war-winning truth cuts through the haze, confronts the darkness in these end times days. A single match struck against the fear, hope ignites, drawing redemption near. Can you feel the tremble in the ground? A buried heartbeat making sound. We all live in dead America, but the dawn's creeping across the panorama. This dead awakening change begins from broken places. Hope unpins. Yeah, we all live in dead America. One healing spark starts the fire burning brighter, taking higher. Today we are speaking.

Ed Watters [1:03] Speaking with Gaber Tatis, he is the CEO and founder of Friendin.com. Gaber, could you please introduce yourself? Let people know just a little more about you, please.

Gaber Tatis [1:19] Yes, first of all, thank you for having me. My name is Gaber, and basically I'm the co-founder of Friendin. It was started with a friend of mine. And basically it is an app that tries to solve the problem of the day, which is 60 million people being, I guess, lonely or not having too many friends. And that's the official statistics. And so basically, as I moved around the world through my life, I was born in Central Europe, in Hungary. and lived most of my childhood in the UK. After university, I moved to Canada and I've been in the States for 30 years. I have experienced loneliness firsthand. So, and when I basically met up with my friend, Jolt, who's the co-founder, he was doing this app already. I said, well, that's a great app because I can see the need for that from a personal perspective. Because basically working from home and moving around so much, I really understand what it is to be alone. So it derived from a personal need and from a personal experience.

Ed Watters [2:42] There's a lot to unpack with this. There's a lot of suspicion. There's a lot of pointing the fingers. And this is something unique because what it does is it allows the anonymous web to really be held accountable. And I find that very interesting what the app is doing. But I'm really interested how How receptive are the people to giving their identification in order to get on the app? Let's start with that.

Gaber Tatis [3:30] Okay. First of all, the full version of the app will launch in March. At the moment, it's in a sort of MVP beta stage available on the App Store. And Yes, people are, I think, are okay to give their identity because they are frustrated with the fact that on other apps, maybe 20-30% of the users are fake or are bots. Imagine a situation where you've— let's say you're a guy and you've been exchanging messages with somebody. Over, I don't know, a month perhaps, and you have not met, but you build up some sort of expectation in your head. Oh, she would look like this based on the picture and what she's describing. And when you push for a meeting, that never happens. And then she ghosts you. So it's an emotional thing as well because you have some expectation. You built up a picture of that person. That person turns out to be nonexistent. But nonetheless, in your mind at that stage, there was somebody. So I think people are fed up with the frustration caused by fake profiles and bots. And what we're doing is, yes, we are asking people to verify themselves in a very strict way, in the sense that you need a driver's license. And that means that at least you exist as a person. And just to be clear for your listeners, we are not the ones doing the verification, as I could understand the hesitation for people not giving their identity, whatever, to a brand new app. But the actual verification is done by a third-party app called Persona. That will happen from March. It doesn't happen at the moment. So basically Persona is the one doing the verification. Think of this as you're giving your credit card to the merchant in a shop, but this is not the merchant who is doing the actual verification. You put your card in, goes through a system, and all the merchant sees is a yes or no, meaning should I accept, the card has been accepted or not. And the same thing goes for us. All we get back from Persona is saying, yes, this is a valid— ID a valid person. So there may be some, I guess, hassle, but think of it the other way around. You know that all other people on the platform has also been verified. So I think that's the comfortable feeling to know that you're not going to get ghosted. That person is real and he or she exists and this is how he or she looks like. So yes, There is some inconvenience, perhaps, if that's the word you want to use. But there's a huge benefit because you know that everybody else went through the same process. So, you know, they all decided that they really want to solve this issue for themselves. They're interested in meeting somebody in their neighborhood with the same interest who is real and don't want to go through the disappointment that I spent a month exchanging Text messages, whatever, with somebody who is nonexistent. And I don't understand people not solving this issue before because all it takes is verification. I guess the real problem for a competitive platform is that they have a lot of users. We do not. So this is the benefit in this respect because we can say to everybody, hey, in order to join the platform, you have to get verified. If you look at an existing brand, they're not going to tell their whatever number of users that, hey, you need to get verified or you're going to lose the platform. They don't really care. But we do because we look at it from a different perspective. A, we are in a position to do that. B, we are in a position to say to people, hey, these people on this platform exist. So I think that's going to be the driving force. That's going to be the magnet. to pull people to the platform.

Ed Watters [7:50] Yeah, I, I see a trend amongst the social media to have that verified badge, and that means something because that tells us that even the bigger guys in the playing field recognize this bot issue and If you're on the internet, you understand that discomfort from dealing with all of that. You don't know if it's real or not, and it tends to be getting worse as we go on with the internet. But people are starting to address these issues, and from the very beginning of the internet, I was always wondering. Why aren't you needing to be verified to be on the internet? Because it's a safer playground, if you will. So what do you feel that is the major factor that keeps people from being verified?

Gaber Tatis [9:08] In some respects, they're afraid to reveal their identity. I think they use the internet as a place to hide because you don't have to have your own picture there. You can say whatever you want. Nobody can say that, you know, this is not true. You can say you're an 18-year-old blonde when you're a 60-year-old guy. You know, you can project a persona. Of whatever you want. And you may have fun on the other side of this. Hey, this guy really likes me. So you may get a kick out of it. There was a movie which came out, I don't know, it was really a few years ago called Clickbait. And it was talking about exactly the same thing that basically a— What? Problem it caused. And it's a very interesting film. And I think it was trying to bring this issue of false, I guess, profiles to the general public's attention and made a very good movie out of it. So it's nothing new. It's just that it's not in the interest of many other sites to have this. The type of verification they do is submit a photo, perhaps when you're touching your nose or whatever. That's the extent of the verification, which today can be done by AI or whatever. We actually match your ID and your face. So yes, you can mislead people by saying you're the best tennis player and you haven't touched a tennis racket, but at least you exist, at least that's how you look like, et cetera. So there is obviously a limit, but I think that people who are willing to take this extra step do not want to mislead people because they don't want to be misled themselves. So they are looking to be truthful. And I think that will create a whole different vibe on the platform because they can— they know that they can trust other people on the platform. So I think that is the biggest differentiating feature and the reasoning that people will come to our platform.

Ed Watters [11:28] Yeah, I found it interesting that one of the features that you offer on this app is locked to that verification. Your— what is it— profile picture has to be the same as your verified photo. And it can't be changed. Why did you choose to do that?

Gaber Tatis [11:58] Because if you can change it, then you lost the essence of verification. Because if you put— if you can replace your picture with the 18-year-old blonde, then you're misleading the potential people who are looking at your profile. So you're allowed to put How should I put it? More fun pictures up there where you're playing, I don't know, tennis, whatever, you know, but your ID type picture is, it is what it is. I mean, in a driver's license or a passport, you don't have a fun picture. You just have a plain old picture, you know, showing how you look. And that's what we're sticking to in the profile initial picture. So when you open the profile, you have an idea how the person looks. And as you delve into the profile itself, you see what he or she does in other activities or environment, you know, depending on what type of picture is put up together with your profile. But I think the most important part is to make sure that that's how the picture That the picture up there represents you and that is how you look.

Ed Watters [13:14] Yeah. Another great thing about it is the interesting features that you have associated with the app, gatherings and things like that. Could you go over some of those exciting features for us?

Gaber Tatis [13:31] Yes. Basically, what we have is what is called the Are You In cards, meaning are you into that activity? So basically you say, I enjoy tennis, volleyball, baseball, whatever it happens to be. This is where I live, and I'm looking for somebody within 50 miles of my location because I'm assuming that people will not travel more than 50 miles to meet somebody. So basically there's common interest to start with because let's say you both like to play tennis. But if there is an activity that's not listed, you're free to create an activity. In the next version coming up in a few weeks, you can also create real-time activity. Let's say you're running and you decide you want to have a running partner. In 2 or 3 clicks, you can say you're running and looking for a running partner now. So anybody who may be running in the neighborhood, You can join them and basically run together. So that's sort of real time. We also be able to do something that, hey, I am planning to go for a run tomorrow evening, perhaps. Is anybody interested? So you can sort of plan, you can do real time. That's what I'm doing now. And you can just say, this is my general interest and I don't have any specific plan, but if anybody's interested in grabbing a coffee, you know, let me know. And one of the other things that we'll introduce in, I would say, in the next 6 months is a safety feature that although everybody has been verified, you may feel uncomfortable at your first time meeting, let's say, a tennis partner or whatever, especially if you're a female. And what we will do is that you can actually tap the screen 3 times And that will actually alert either the police, a friend, or anybody in the neighborhood with the— not just the Frendly app. For this to work, it is a Bluetooth connection to a device. So you would need to have perhaps a keychain that you can buy optionally or a bracelet, because that's the way iPhone works. Once the app is closed, There is no way to detect your tapping on the screen. So you have to have Bluetooth or some other communication that's constantly on to do that. But we do value safety and it's our top priority. So selling this additional item for, I don't know, $10 or whatever, we still need to do research in terms of costs involved. It's something again, proof that we value safety above anything else. That is why we verify people, but verification only means that this is how you look like and that's what your name is. It doesn't verify you as a person in terms of intent.

Ed Watters [16:41] So really, it's not like a traditional dating app. It's kind of a combination of a dating app and a community building app. At the same time, is that what it is?

Gaber Tatis [16:58] In some respects it is, but it's a friending app because I believe that all more intimate relationships start off with being friends in the first place. So if that friendship turns into a more intimate romantic relationship, all the better. But I think people are more comfortable with less pressure, meaning Let's meet for a date, not for a date, but for a coffee date, not a date date. And then sort of what happens, it's less pressure. And people are, I think, are more open to do that because they are— it's not a question of being rejected as in a traditional date sense. All we're doing is playing tennis, having coffee, going for a walk, you know, whatever it happens to be. So more people will be open to that because they are less afraid of being rejected.

Ed Watters [17:51] I like that a lot. That's a good intent. And, you know, not everybody's looking for a date. They just want a friend. And I think I find that very unique. Is there anything else unique about what it offers?

Gaber Tatis [18:10] Yes, I think we really mean friendship. And let's say you want to go fishing, which is a whole day activity. And what we'll do is we will offer free 1-month credit. Eventually it will be subscription-based, but we will offer free 1-month credit to the person if that person in your fishing trip stays over at your place, stays overnight, because that also enhances friendship and whatever. So our real aim is to build a community and we're not doing Airbnb or Couchsurfing or whatever. This is not for money. This is just for you and him to enjoy the evening at whatever, so they don't have to drive back, or they can have a drink or whatever. And if both of you verify that this happens, then basically the host will get one month free once it is a paid subscription-based app, which won't happen until there are more users. And even that is it's a. Minor charge, anything from $5 to $10, depending on what kind of services you want to take advantage of per month, you know, $50 or $100 per year. And even that, eventually we plan to partner with various, I don't know, let's say coffee shops, where if you are a Frendly member, you get a 10% discount. So, um, We plan to build a community, involve other retailers to promote the app in some respects, and realizing that you're not going to be looking for a friend every month, although we would like to keep you on the app. And we want to give you something for your $5 a month, even in those months where you don't actually find that friend or looking for a friend. But at least you can, you know, by by just buying coffee in a coffee shop, you probably save your $5 back anyway. So it is a real community thing and we are really doing anything that we can to solve the loneliness issue. And we're open for suggestions. You can always email us at podcast@friending.com if you have ideas or whatever. What we're also considering doing in the background is that You can rate the other individual, but it is not going to be a public rating system. It's just that when we have a lot of users, let's say in a neighborhood we have a I don't know hundred users, then we're trying to give you the list of people who I think would be the best match. So you know if you are Ignorant or rude or whatever, and many people tell us the same thing, then you will be lower down on the suggestion list for friends. It's not a public rating. You have no idea as a user. It's just the algorithm eventually, once we have enough users, we'll use to determine who we think is the best match for you.

Ed Watters [21:31] That's really a good security feature within itself because it lowers that creep-o-meter aspect of the internet. And a lot of individuals nowadays, they're going to like that. You know, we're around the same age, I believe. I just turned 60. So you remember back when We hung out at the park and families would just be everywhere in the parks playing and gathering. And they used to have, you know, at my local park, they had an arts and crafts center where everybody could come and gather and do arts and crafts together. And nobody needed prompting to do that. It was just a natural community thing that everybody really enjoyed themselves. And it's a big different world now. So what you are doing with this app is kind of creating that same environment to invite people into that reminiscing of the old days, the way they were when everybody could talk to each other.

Gaber Tatis [23:00] Yes, absolutely. 2 points in that regard. If you go to a restaurant today or a diner, whatever, you see a family just sitting at the table and everybody is busy with their respective screen. So, you know, why go out in the first place is my comment. Second comment is that when I was a young kid, And you know, I got grounded for doing something bad, and I couldn't use my bike, let's say, for a week or whatever. Today, the whole world is turned upside down. You are sent out to use your bike, to get off from your app, or you get off from your screen. So what used to be a penalty or or whatever. for me is now something that other kids are forced to do in order to not be inside all the time. So, you know, in my mind, because of my age, I grant you that the world is in a totally wrong direction. And it's not just me. Projections say that 2/3 of the people living in the US in the next 5 to 10 years will be alone.

Ed Watters [24:17] Yeah, that's alarming, you know, and that you talked about in your information sheet, the loneliness epidemic, and that is incredible when you think about it. The, the quickness that this crept into our lives is incredible. I would say it happened within 15 to 20 years. And do you think the internet is one of the leading factors causing that?

Gaber Tatis [24:59] Yes and no. When I moved to North America, to Canada in the '90s, I could only afford to call my parents in Europe once a week. So I called them every Saturday because Saturday was the cheapest. Today, you know, you can FaceTime, talk to them for hours at no cost. So technology has improved over the last 20 years or 25 years. Yet the downside of technology caused this issue. But is the technology at fault or is it how we use it? So the technology itself is great. Look, we can talk, we can see each other, you know, we can do podcasts, whatever. So is it the technology to blame? No, I think it's how you use it. Like if you have a gun, it's not the gun that is to blame for if something happens, it's how or who used it. So technology is wonderful because it allows us to do what we're doing now. It's just people are not—

Speaker A [26:02] Are not—

Gaber Tatis [26:04] trained or whatever when they grow up. I mean, I have a teenage daughter now, but even when she was a toddler, I would see people going to restaurants and putting an iPhone or a tablet in front of their young kid to watch cartoons or whatever instead of engaging the person. I remember, you know, we would bring coloring books, whatever. We would never Just ignore and give something to the kid to do while we're there, or probably on our phone actually, or whatever, giving it to the typical parents. So it is how the kids are brought up today, and which causes this whole issue. And also, I think COVID has a lot to do with it, although it's not spreading as a virus, its effect is still around today. A lot of people are working from home unwillingly in the sense that they work from home because there's nowhere to go in to work. And even if you only spend 10 minutes with your coworkers in a social environment a day for coffee or whatever, at least you met up with people. I always work from home, so I'm psychologically prepared to do that. But if you worked in a office environment in the traditional sense, you were surrounded by people. And now today you're at home in front of a screen and you may be in an uncomfortable situation because you may have a toddler screaming next door in a different bedroom. Your wife may be also at home. So there may be physical constraints in terms of rooms or whatever. So people are forced into a situation where they don't feel comfortable to be in because of the pandemic. And because it's not a virus, you don't see people psychologically being ill in the same sense as you would see that they have COVID. So people are ignoring this because it is not an apparent visually effect saying, hey, this guy is sick because he looks just fine. healthy as I or you. But in terms of blood pressure, psyche, extreme cases, suicide, all of this has an effect. And what's even also surprising is your blood pressure and all that, your sugar, blood sugar has an effect. So it's not just mental, it's physical. And less importantly, but the economy loses about $150 billion a year Because people are not doing their best at work.

Ed Watters [28:53] Yeah, that's a big factor of the technology. And I really like that you point out that we don't use it properly. And I think that we're still in the infancy stage of this internet, but at the same time, You know, how long, how long did it take before we started issuing driver's licenses and whatnot when the technology of automobiles came on? It, it's kind of interesting that we don't regulate the internet as much as we probably should.

Gaber Tatis [29:39] I think people live in a false in a false dream in the sense that they have friends because they have 1,000 people on Facebook that they've never met. And it is going to get worse because with robots, AI, you may actually have a physical quote-unquote being in the room with you. There are, I don't know, Neo, whatever it's called. You can get a robot for $10,000. Which today is $10,000, in 2 years' time it will be $1,000. So that will generate even bigger falsehoods because, hey, I have somebody here and, you know, always nice to me. I never argue. Does what I ask. The best thing you can want in some respects. But it's just like drugs. You know, you're high all the time and you're not in the real world. And human beings since the Stone Age were designed to be in groups. So, you know, with real people, I know there were no robots at the time, but I'm saying that your inner genes is coded to be with real people and technology will never be able to replace that.

Ed Watters [30:56] Yeah, that's interesting. You know, that, that Herd mentality. It's evolving, if you will, into a different subset of cultural ideas, if you will. And that is kind of alarming when you sit down and start thinking about the psychological aspects of all of this. Because it does lead into the physiology in your world. And I know if I don't get up and do something other than just sit here in the studio and play all day on the internet, I tend to fill that and I can measure that. So we need to find identifiers to help us navigate through the new world that we're living in, because we are living in this new ordered and structured world.

Gaber Tatis [32:06] I sincerely agree. And I think it is up to us as individuals to make sure that you set events every day or a few times a week that you go out and meet with people. Because otherwise you're just going to be isolated both mentally and physically. So you need to get out of your comfort zone. And I think most people don't meet others because they're just comfortable sitting in front of a screen. And you need to really go out. And, you know, whether it's through friending or otherwise, you need to go out and meet people. in the real physical world.

Ed Watters [32:50] Yeah, I agree with that. You know, I myself find it harder and harder to go associate with people because everybody's withdrawing. And we have to remember the difference is what helped us grow to this great capacity here in the United States, and it spread around the world for quite a few years. And we have to start getting grips on that. Is there anything else you would like to discuss today?

Gaber Tatis [33:31] Basically, I would like to encourage everybody to sign up for Friendi. At the moment, it's free. It's on friendi.com. It's iOS only at the moment. And we also have, which I haven't mentioned, As I said, we're really into friendships and gifting. We have an interesting coffee that you can buy on our, on our web store, on our site. And what's interesting, other than the unique packaging, most of it is various cities with famous landmarks that perhaps you have a friend, you want to visit there, or you live there. But other than those landmarks, we have birthday versions and St. Patrick's Day is coming up. But the neat thing about it is when you buy the coffee, it's usually as a gift. So you would type in a message. You could say, hey, thank you for the podcast. You type it in. And when the recipient gets that coffee, there's a QR code. They download the app and read their message, which is embedded in the QR code. So we're using really coffee other than it's great coffee and nice packaging. As a marketing tool to have people download the app. You don't need to register, but you need to download it. And it says there's a button that's saying read QR code. And basically that's how you get your message. I can actually— I don't know if that's the back of the packaging and that's the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge version of the coffee. But there are others. As I said, the most important part is this. Because you need to read the QR code. So it's really neat and you don't need to send the gift card with it. So you save on the gift card and it's something unique and it's private because all they see is the QR code. So it's not printed on the packaging. I mean.

Ed Watters [35:27] That is definitely going to evolve into other products. I can just see that. Being a hit, a unique thank you. That's kind of awesome. Well, Gaber, I have enjoyed speaking to you about the app and some of the things going on in our world. Could you let people know how to get involved with you and reach out to you?

Gaber Tatis [36:01] Yeah, the easiest way is to just send a message podcast@friending.com, or you can go to our website and use the email address there, which is hello@friending.com. The podcast will tell me that you heard about the app on the podcast, but you're welcome to use either email address. Feel free to suggest. Feel free to let me know what you think doesn't work. Feel free to know what you think we should have and do. And thank you very much for having me.

Ed Watters [36:34] It's been a pleasure. Thank you for being here.

Gaber Tatis [36:37] Thank you so much.

Speaker A [36:50] Budapest Airport, winter '94. Snowflakes melting on the tarmac. A final glance at the Chain Bridge. One leather suitcase cracked at the edges, stuffed with paprika and faded photos. Golden State billboards screaming neon English. His dictionary worn thin by midnight. Christmas lights flicker on his studio wall, reflections dancing in his coffee while Budapest's laughter echoes through the tiny screen. His mother's wrinkled hands dawn Spills on mechanical keyboards, the blue glow etching shadows under his eyes. Building connections one algorithm at a time, digital stitches across the ocean. From the Donau's bend where willows weep to the Pacific's endless concrete sweep. A lifetime spent translating dreams into code, knocking on servers instead of doors. Hungary to California, oh, 30 years of airport chrome. Still tasting goulash and silicone. Gable builds bridges through the screen. 50 million blinking green. Trending finds what lonely hearts need. A glowing web of light where lonely hearts entwine. Midnight oil burning in Mountain View cubes, debugging the loneliness in hexadecimal hues. Each line of code like a fisherman's net, casting wide across time zones, hauling in faces. From tiny flats with laundry on chairs, smelling of paprika and diesel air, The data centers humming like hearts, where every packet carries lies. A 3 AM call across 14 hours bridges the distance with silicon flowers. Hungary to California Row, 30 years of airport chrome, still tasting goulash in silicon air. Cable builds bridges through the screen. 50 million blinking green, friending finds what lonely hearts need. A glowing web of light where lonely hearts entwine. A new connection, Budapest dawn. A notification, his childhood lawn. Through constellations of human desperation and digital salvation. Silicon Valley servers hum lullabies. The dot who whispers all goodbyes to distant shores where the lonely hearts go. Not quite home, not quite alone. Through fiber optic veins and satellite bones, a new world grows in the space between phones. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.