Michael Clogs started his podcast company out of frustration with a conflict between what he knew to be the truth and what the mass media was telling the public. After losing a job as an analytical chemist in a high-tech industry, he was told he was untrainable and too expensive to be hired by any other industry. Forced to find a way to survive, Michael managed to find a way to pay the rent in the mobile app world and daycare. That was not enough, and he began broadcasting on a local radio station advocating for equality and rights for people with disabilities, and Depictions Media was born from there. Please go to Depictions.media
After getting to know Michael, I was impressed by his will to drive change in our world. He is very active in presenting us with well-informed media. You can understand our world and how it works when you follow Michael on his unique podcasts. It would be best if you were the driver when you discover how to change the world.
Michael is always looking for the stories that matter and delivers on what he see's as needed information for all of us. Together we can have the change that we all seek.
[00:00:00] Michael Clogs: Jesus Christ was, he was a protestor, He wanted people to fill their hearts with love. He's, is a, and, and I think that we, with, with all these organized religions out there, that we forget that that's what God wants us to do, is to love each other. You know? And I think sometimes we, we get confused over the definition of love.
[00:00:33] Love is a joining and it has nothing to do with, we, oh, we, we, so many people think that, oh, what, they put a, a romance to it or a sexuality to it, or something like that. It's like, and it's not about that, love is about, it's that energy that, that binds us all together, you know?
[00:00:57] Ed Watters: Yes, yeah.
[00:01:00] Michael Clogs: and when we, we open our hearts up to that, it's like, man.
[00:01:10] Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand, the way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself. Let's dive in and learn something right now.
[00:02:01] Today we're speaking with Michael Clogs, he is the creator, owner, host of Depictions Media. He used to be an analytical chemist and he turned into this media guru. So Michael, would you introduce yourself and let people know just a little more about you, please?
[00:02:27] Michael Clogs: Well, um, basically I created Depictions Media because there's a lot of mass media out there that just doesn't tell the truth, you know, and people don't, don't realize what they don't know and they gotta know,
[00:02:45] that's the whole point. We have to know what we don't know or else we can't ask the right questions. We can't, um, when we need to march, we can't march for the right things. And we need, and we can't do the right things in our community unless we really know what the issue is and what caused the issue.
[00:03:07] Now, as, as, as you mentioned, I used to be an analytical chemist and I was one in a hundred people that, in the world that could actually do a specific test with a massive spectrometer. And hey, I, I was like, Hey, I'm on top of the world. I, I, it's like, I got audited by, um, some pretty big, um, uh, auditing groups that are, that are global.
[00:03:35] Um, uh, I think it was, uh, they were called Pricewaterhousecoopers , and they, they said that, Hey, I was one of the leading analytical chemists out there because my results were consistent. If I said the result was a result that, by this audit proof that, hey, he, he's on the money. And I've had my resume, uh, been looked at by NASA and by Cern, which, hey, in the, in the world of science, that's, that, that means a lot. To the average person,
[00:04:10] it may not mean much of anything. But there were some things out there and one of the big things that, that I ran into was, um, one of my lab partners had worked for a company that, um, introduced a sweetener product. I'm not gonna mention names, but sweeteners we all know are big business. And, um, one sweetener was said to have this huge capacity to make us unhealthy.
[00:04:46] So another sweetener was introduced and as it turned out that, that particular sweetener had just as equal capacity to make us unhealthy as the first one that they yanked off the market. And that there was things behind the scenes, payoffs, and, and, uh, in schemes that we never hear about in, in the public that pushed one product over the other.
[00:05:22] One company was in financial trouble and the other company said, Hey, if you push, push it out there and they get a little bit on the back end, why not? You know? So these are the things that happen in business that produce products that we never even hear about and I think that people need to hear about them.
[00:05:45] And so that was what helped push along the idea of Depictions Media. The other thing was, um, the United States, Canada, and Great Britain marched into the Middle East, caused a war, yanked a person out of power, all because they wanted more oil.
[00:06:13] Well, that's not right, and some of, some of my, my, my close friends that I grew up with, they were in some of the , uh, combat units in the United States and they were sent to war over a couple drops of oil. They didn't train for that, they trained because they believed in democracy and they believed in equality and that's what they wanted to go to war over, not an oil patch.
[00:06:52] So, you know, I, I woke up to this and that's the whole point is, I finally woke up and my mission now is to get others to wake up. It's like, this isn't about being angry about, um, about things. This is about, hey, we need to wake up and we need to take control of our lives. So,
[00:07:15] Ed Watters: Michael, that's very interesting. Yeah. It's very interesting that you say that. It's not about being angry, it's about making it right, making things happen in the best suitable manner that we can. That is really the scientific model, per se and really it's the logical approach. And many of us, we get that consumerism bug and we forget about what's precious instead of what we need.
[00:07:49] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:07:50] Ed Watters: Our, our need for greed and the next biggest iPhone or the bling that basically when you drop it, it's toast anyway, see. So a lot of that, that we hunger for, it's limited in its capacity in many ways, especially longevity. When we talk about electronics, we're talking, you know, two, three months now, and that's out of date,
[00:08:19] they've got something new. Being able to control that, that's very unique in people and that's where people like you kind of sit back, they analyze it, and they say, this isn't right, so how can I step in and make it better? When I started, I got angry and I was just mad because everything happened to me at once and that wake up that you talked about it, it was hard for me.
[00:08:59] So developing from that anger to getting into what matters the most and how to push your message, what is that like for you and how should people actually spread their message in an appropriate way without that anger attached to the message?
[00:09:25] Michael Clogs: Well, first we gotta get past the anger cause, um, cause trust me, uh, um, I, I, I was angry, especially when, when one of my friends were being sent overseas to go fight a war over some oil.
[00:09:40] It's like, yeah, I, I was, I was angry, it's like, and I had to get over that. Um, luckily I I, I had a couple great people sit me down and, and say, um, Hey, the, the anger's just gonna have, have these, have these things come, have these, these [00:10:00] powers to be, these corporate entities just come chase you down. And they're gonna stuff you in jail or something like that
[00:10:06] and, and you'll never get heard of again. It's like I had a couple great people actually sit me down and tell me that. It's like, so one, get through the anger and once you get past the anger and you, and you truly do wake up, tell everybody else about how you got angry and woke up. Ed, you, you on, on the episode that we recorded, uh, on Depictions Media, you said you, you got angry and then you woke up, right? It's part of your story.
[00:10:40] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:10:41] Michael Clogs: You know.
[00:10:41] Ed Watters: And by the way, by the way, before you carry on, Michael, that was one of the better episodes I've ever done because it was filled with so much truthful fact.
[00:10:53] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:10:53] Ed Watters: Sorry for interrupting you.
[00:10:55] Michael Clogs: Oh no, that's okay. And thank you for, for saying that, that we're, we are spreading truth.
[00:11:02] Um, so get through the anger and then start looking for the truth. Cause it'll start to reveal itself and, hey, you know what? Instead of spending the money for, for a new iPhone, why don't you take that same thousand dollars that, because I just bought a new one because, I bought a new one because, because Apple said it couldn't be fixed. They wouldn't put a new battery in it, so I had to cope, I had to buy,
[00:11:34] Ed Watters: That's a trap isn't it?
[00:11:35] Michael Clogs: Yeah. And that's how I know that it costs about a thousand dollars for a new iPhone. Um, and take, take your family, or spend that thousand dollars and take your family on, on a camping trip. You know, there's some beautiful sites in, in, in our world and
[00:12:00] Oregon, you, cause you're in Oregon, you know, has, has some really, really cool places to, to go visit along the beaches and everything. It's like, uh, British Columbia where I am. It's like, man, go, go, go sit, sit on the beach and, with, with your family. Have a picnic lunch or, or, or just say a picnic dinner and watch the sunset.
[00:12:26] Ed Watters: Oh,
[00:12:27] Michael Clogs: It's like,
[00:12:27] Ed Watters: yeah.
[00:12:27] Michael Clogs: It's amazing.
[00:12:28] Ed Watters: There you go. Yeah.
[00:12:30] Michael Clogs: You know, do something like that, you know, it's like, it doesn't, one, it doesn't cost a thousand dollars to, to go sit, sit on the beach unless you have to travel to it, you know? It's like, so, so you travel to it, it's like, it's worth,
[00:12:47] Ed Watters: Right.
[00:12:48] Michael Clogs: Worth the, the expense that way because we're gonna create memories for our family that way.
[00:12:56] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:12:57] Michael Clogs: And those memories are way more precious than the, the iPhone, the Apple computer. I don't mean to just pick on Apple, but if you, if you actually were just sitting in my studio as like, I have, I have all Apple stuff.
[00:13:17] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:13:17] Michael Clogs: So I'm not just picking on Apple . Uh, but with that being said, some of the ideals of, of Steve Jobs were around,
[00:13:29] he created the products he did because he wanted people to be able to create and, and save their memories as what, some of why he created what he did. He didn't create, create apple just on consumerism. And while we're, while we're getting to consumerism, um, We, we have this whole thing, and as, uh, as we're recording this, um, COP27 just ended.
[00:14:04] And if, for those that, that need to, need a little more information, COP27 is about climate change. It is the UN's, um, platform for bringing a bunch of countries together to talk about climate change. So they, it just ended, and they didn't, didn't slap at the oil industry as, as hard as they, people thought.
[00:14:34] They didn't, um, come to conclusions that, oh gee, um, we should make the, these oil companies pay their fair share to clean up their mess. And so a lot of that didn't, didn't actually happen. But as we are the people, why don't we just simply, what if we cut back on our commercialism. US and Canada, right? Two of the biggest consumer countries in the world, if we were just to simply cut back 10% on, on the amount of products that we buy, it would have a drastic effect. In Asia where these products are manufactured, it would slow production down. I mean,
[00:15:27] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's incredible. You know , a lot of people don't recognize the power of oil. You know, that, that oil, every drop of it has a purpose, a use. And when they refine that and it goes through that refinery process, that leftover sludge stuff, well, they use that and we, we make plastics and things like that out of it.
[00:16:00] But the, the carbon footprint of that, it, it can have devastating effects. And we don't think beyond the dollar really when we get into things like that. We don't recognize, well, maybe we should think about how we're gonna dispose of the waste a little better or is there a better way to dispose of what we have left.
[00:16:28] And we find a lot of rubber, a lot of plastic, a lot of waste that really is unneeded in our world. When we think about it, it, it's overwhelming. And we pollute our world by this toxic waste land in the oceans. And I don't know about you, but I can drive up into the forest here and I see where people just dump their waste. And, you know, there's, there's no sense in this.
[00:17:06] If, if that's the case, maybe we should have that access for those individuals that can't afford it so that is not happening in our world. So there's always these things that people don't think the consequence, the after the buck.
[00:17:25] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:17:26] Ed Watters: What's it gonna do to our world? And you concentrate on that a lot, there's meaning to that.
[00:17:33] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:17:34] Ed Watters: And. What got you started into being so aware of environmental issues and changing how we consume?
[00:17:45] Michael Clogs: Well, it was a, a lot of it was, was changing my own values. You know, there was some, at one point, uh, was like, um, I started telling this story, um, cause I, I, when I said I was at the top of my game as an analytical chemist, I had a Ram 2500 with the, the Viper V 10 engine.
[00:18:15] And I was like, aarrgg, it, it's full of muscle and, and, and I'm racing around with, with, with, with this truck, right? And, um, some things happened and I spoke out against, um, the, the war in Iraq and a lot of things in the community had changed and didn't go exactly the way I thought they should. And I found myself being divorced and having my truck repoed and, and my, uh, my, my house at, at the time,
[00:18:52] um, you know, I had like 2500 square feet. Hey, we're on top of the world sort of thing, right? And, um, it was foreclosed on and my ex-wife filing all these injunctions and things against me and I'm like, I'm like looking around and it's like, it's, the only thing left was, was me. Well, it's like, hey, if you don't think that, that makes that, having that happen won't make you angry,
[00:19:31] oh, yeah, you're , you're angry. And so I had all that and I, and I was like, well, I'm sitting down with, with, with some of the people there that were, that, that were really my friends in that political world. And they said, if you keep going like this, they're gonna keep coming at you. Uh, they're gonna stuff you, stuff you in, in, in the jail and, and they'll lose you and [00:20:00] you'll be forgotten about forever.
[00:20:02] It's like, what are you gonna do? I was like, and with that, um, I made some moves and I realized that there was enlightenment out there and that I don't have to be angry about it, I don't have to, to march. And, and, but writing letters and in this day and age, sending emails, it becomes important. But sending it in, in the way that you are presenting ideas and asking questions as opposed to screaming about how nasty the, they are gets, gets you further.
[00:20:52] And then I had this opportunity to, to, to cause awareness for, for a group of, of, of people that they were disabled because of chronic pain. And I got, got to walk, um, somewhere between, I, I forget, somewhere between a thousand to 1500 kilometers across our continent. And it's beautiful out there,
[00:21:27] Ed Watters: Yes.
[00:21:28] Michael Clogs: I mean, I mean, stunning beautiful. It's like, and you know, some of those, those crazy fears about don't, I'm a bit of a nut case, so I'll go, I'm going to say, say, I got to play with, play with, with, with, with a grizzly bear.
[00:21:46] Don't do that. I'm a lucky bastard and I'm living to tell, talk about it. But, but it was like, but it was, then I realized that I had, something inside of me had changed. Something had changed and I was open to what is happening in our universe in a loving way. It doesn't change the fact that, yes, we're still gonna broadcast about, um, what the government isn't doing for us.
[00:22:21] But we're also going to present those ideas of what the government could, could be doing for us and how we can, we can help make it better so that we're asking for things and not saying we don't want things. Instead of, I don't, I don't do a lot of events with people that are against something. What are you, I asked them, I said, why don't we change it around so that we are for something?
[00:22:48] It's like, we are for human rights, we're not against bigotry. It's like when you say you're for human rights, it means, it means that you're standing, you're taking a stance that people can say, Hey, I can join in on that, you know?
[00:23:07] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:23:08] Michael Clogs: So, so a lot of that, it, it changed, it, it took a total mindset change away from anger and, and, and hate to love and trust. Trust that, that, that, that your next door neighbor is going , is gonna be happy and, and, and, and, and a good person, you know, even though he may look different than you, trust in that.
[00:23:40] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:23:40] Michael Clogs: I know, Ed, you, you had the same, some of the same transformations, right?
[00:23:45] Ed Watters: That's right. You know, anger gets you nowhere but more angry and we, we have to remember what we feed ourself we're inclined to do. So that, that transition, it really takes that awareness, the waking up, like you stated earlier. And for many of us that entails hitting rock bottom or the basement of rock bottom, you know, not even knowing if there is a way out, those struggles are real.
[00:24:23] And identifying the power within yourself without the need of people telling you, oh, good job, you're, you're doing such a good job. Because most of the time, you know this as well, Michael, we're not patted on the back. We're in a competition zone in many ways, that's what the mind does to us. And if we can turn that off and realize we're not in a competition, we're here to help one another grow, exceed. And, and if we help each other exceed
[00:25:05] who they are right now, when they hit the top, maybe they'll reach down and say, Hey, come on up here I need you up here because you got me here, you know? And, and that's the world I wanna live in. So recognizing that shift in mindset is up to you, nobody else is gonna do it for you. So if you're around those individuals that are grumpy and telling you you can't do it, and you won't do it, and why you shouldn't do it,
[00:25:41] maybe you should shift and locate yourself to those people telling you that's a good idea. How can you do this? What steps can you take to make it easier for you to get there? These are the steps that I aspire to give out. I mean, I wanna teach people how I learned so they don't have to get knocked down 7, 8, 10 times. If we can create a world like that, imagine the possibilities. What could we do?
[00:26:24] Michael Clogs: Yeah, exactly. I, I, I love when, when, when I have somebody come on the show and, and they're telling a story about how they offered a hand out to lift somebody up, you know.
[00:26:40] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:26:42] Michael Clogs: You know, and I, I found myself when I, when I changed, changed that, I, I stopped hearing from, from these people who wanted to spread the hate messages. They, they stopped showing up on my doorstep.
[00:26:56] Ed Watters: That's a good point.
[00:26:57] Michael Clogs: These people that, no, I wanna be able to broadcast on your show, I want, can I come on your show and talk about how I help people come up? How I help them, help them lift, lift up, you know.
[00:27:12] Ed Watters: There's no better power than that. You know, people get power hungry, but when you find the power in what you just said, you've got the world in your hand.
[00:27:24] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:27:25] Ed Watters: And, and you can't, you can't get any better than that.
[00:27:30] Michael Clogs: Well, one, um, one of my, my, my favorite, um, episodes, um, and this was actually on radio, so I don't, I don't actually have this recorded on our podcast system, but, um, I do, I have, I have brought Karen Tyrell,
[00:27:49] she is a dementia expert. And when I first had her on our show on radio, uh, which is, which the, the episode wound up being owned by the radio station and not by me, so I don't have it. But there was a, um, some of our team members had just lost their mother to dementia and they were trying to understand some of the things that happened. And she started walking through a process about of,
[00:28:25] uh, about how things were happening with, with her mother as, as, as they passed away. They were in tears, not in tears because they, they, they were angry, they were in tears because their heart filled up with, with love again. And they realized that, that their mother was, was going through this thing that she, yes, she was slowly being taken from them, but they realized all the precious moments, even through the, the process of dementia taking her.
[00:28:58] And it was an amazing thing. I actually, um, one of the, uh, one of the techs was going to cut the session and, and go to a commercial, and I, I said, no, no, We're not going to commercial on this one. It was like, let it play, let it, let this play out. It's like the station manager may have been tapping on the glass or whatever, but I said, no, this is good radio,
[00:29:24] people need, need to hear this one. I said, let it play out, we can't interrupt this, you know? Um, and more and more people started showing up, it's like, um, Dead America showed up on, on my doorstep as well as I showed up on your doorstep. It's like,
[00:29:44] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:29:45] Michael Clogs: it's like, it didn't seem, I was like, Dead America, what the heck is that about? And I listened to an episode and it was like, it's like, he's, he's lifting people up.
[00:29:54] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:29:56] Michael Clogs: This guy Ed, it's like, I need, need to talk to him, you know? [00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Ed Watters: Yeah. And, and you know, I'll always remember those that lifted me up because they are so empowering instead of imprisoning and that we have to get through our heads very quickly. You know, dealing with dementia,
[00:30:19] uh, my stepfather, he, he was in Idaho, in the Elks Hospital in Boise, and my sister and my niece, they just kinda let him go because he wanted to go and he had dementia. Well, he ended up somehow in Boise, Idaho, and they called me and I said, well, alright, somehow I'm gonna get there and get Joe and get him back,
[00:31:00] and it's amazing how things line up when you need them to. But the, the thing is, I worked with him, and I was going through my own turmoils at the time also, and some of those things that happened during his decline was devastating because I did not understand what dementia was going to do to, not only him, but the family. And, you know, but, just outburst of tears and cry for no reason
[00:31:42] and you think that you've done something, you know, there's these mixed emotions that happen. And then they'll start laughing at you at the wrong time and it sends this signal, why are you laughing at me? Well, they can't help it, they're, they're, they don't even realize they're doing it. And those stages of dementia is so confusing for the individuals caring for the individual.
[00:32:15] If you're not astute to it, you, you are just kinda thrown into it and you go, what the heck is this? Why are you doing this? It, I think that's one of the most important topics that people need to discuss is this dementia and how the stages of dementia will play out because it's confusing so much. So I really thank you for putting that message out because it's like cancer, at some point you're probably going to deal with somebody with dementia.
[00:32:58] Michael Clogs: Yes. Um, we have a, a, a neighbor around the corner from us, a wonderful couple, um, and the, the husband is trying, is, he's doing his best. And, um, I contacted my friend Karen and, and she told me, told me, she says, you know what? just sit down and work with him on, so that he could call the right people, um, to get help.
[00:33:29] Now he's, he, he's, he stopped me the other day and he, he said that, that they're gonna have, it's gonna, still gonna take a couple weeks, but, but he's on the schedule so that a respite person can come and just give him a break, you know? And it's an amazing, it, their dementia story is also a love story because they grew up in this little town in, uh, between France, Belgium, and, and Germany. Um, that, they watched the, the, the Nazis walk through and,
[00:34:08] Ed Watters: Wow.
[00:34:08] Michael Clogs: and attack France, you know. It, um, and, they, they, uh, they moved here to, to North America and, um, as part of their, their love story and, and it's ending with him bathing her, and feeding her, and doing, uh, love is, is just continued. And, and sometimes she, she looks at him and, and she doesn't know where, where, where she is. And she
[00:34:44] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:34:44] Michael Clogs: can't speak anything more than, than French and then those other times that she understands you in English, you know? And
[00:34:52] Ed Watters: Interesting.
[00:34:54] Michael Clogs: it's an amazing, I sat down in her kitchen and, and as we're, as I was giving him the information that he needed to get help, and he started telling me more and more of these stories, you know. I was like, they've had amazing lives and it'd be good just to bring them some dignity, you know? I was like,
[00:35:16] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:35:17] Michael Clogs: So, that's what, that's what podcasting is supposed to be about, building community.
[00:35:23] Ed Watters: That's right. That's right.
[00:35:25] Michael Clogs: You know,
[00:35:25] Ed Watters: And, and you know, what, what does those stories do for you, Michael, and how do they help you approach your everyday?
[00:35:35] Michael Clogs: Well, just the fact that, in this particular case, that he's telling me that he's gonna get the help is like, it means that the connections are working.
[00:35:44] You know, I had a, a conversation, uh, about a friend. Um, we were sitting at coffee and, and she starts telling me about the power of one, that we're all connected. And when we accept that power of one, we can do, it's a, we can, we can just about move mountains. But we're not. But the, here's, the point is we're gonna leave the mountain where it is so others can enjoy it, even though we may have the power to move it.
[00:36:23] Ed Watters: I'm glad you made that point, Michael. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
[00:36:30] Michael Clogs: Right, exactly.
[00:36:33] Ed Watters: That's, that's a good point to make.
[00:36:35] Michael Clogs: A real good point.
[00:36:39] Ed Watters: You know, one of the things you say is, everyone has a voice. I, I love that mantra. Why does everybody have a voice?
[00:36:53] Michael Clogs: Oh, I'm, I'm gonna go God on that one, on you. God gave us a voice .
[00:36:59] Ed Watters: Amen. Yeah, that's right.
[00:37:03] Michael Clogs: You know, He gave, He gave us a voice, He gave us the ability to speak out. Um, I'm, I'm even gonna go back to, to Jesus Christ, it's like, Jesus Christ, uh, I know that to organized religion, they, they came with this fire and brimstone thing and I don't exactly get along with it because God put love as the main energy of what runs our universe. It was what makes
[00:37:31] Ed Watters: I wish more would get that.
[00:37:32] Michael Clogs: you beautiful, right? But Jesus Christ, He was a protestor, He wanted people to fill their hearts with love. He's, He's a,
[00:37:45] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:37:45] Michael Clogs: And, and I think that we, with, with all these organized religions out there, that we forget that that's what God wants us to do is to love each other,
[00:38:01] you know. And I think sometimes we, we get confused over the definition of love. Love is a joining and it has nothing to do with, we, oh, we, we, so many people think that, oh, what, they put a, a romance to it, uh, or sexuality to it, or something like that. It was like, and it's not about that. Love is about, it's that energy that, that binds us all together, you know?
[00:38:34] Ed Watters: Yes. Yeah.
[00:38:37] Michael Clogs: And when we, we open our hearts up to that, it's like, man.
[00:38:42] Ed Watters: Yeah. It is, it, it is about relationship. And you know, many of us throw relationships under the rug because of our own misunderstanding, unfortunately. But when we forgive and, you know, Let, allow ourselves to say, it's okay and I'm sorry, and forgive ourselves for those actions,
[00:39:10] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:39:10] Ed Watters: it can really change who we are. So, you know, relationship is hard, very hard. Uh, next year I've been with my wife 40 years and you know those,
[00:39:27] Michael Clogs: Congratulations.
[00:39:27] Ed Watters: yes, it, it, thank you. It's hard work and there's many times I'm surprised that we made it through some of these difficult times. But having the understanding that we're gonna just take our problems with us, we have to address our problems before we can achieve any greatness.
[00:39:56] And even though we may not have our [00:40:00] problems worked out, we are aware of our problems. Because those problems are never ending and they will isolate us, they'll condemn us, they'll torture us, and they'll make us bleed. And we have to look at the inside of us, free ourselves, and that is the power of Jesus Christ, you know,
[00:40:24] Michael Clogs: yeah.
[00:40:24] Ed Watters: the forgiveness. I, I, my favorite thing about Christ is when He was on the cross and the words that he said, forgive them, father, they know not what they do. It, it still just crushes me, you know, and knowing, yeah, I, I know that mindset, the hustle, the bustle, the every day I've got to succeed
[00:40:55] mindset instead of that humbled, hey, it is what it is and I understand we have bad days. Humbling ourself and recognizing the good in just being who we are. I, I'm okay just being who I am, I don't need to be, you know, the next biggest thing. I am the next biggest thing because I'm gonna wake up tomorrow, I hope, and when I do, that's success.
[00:41:34] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:41:35] Ed Watters: And you know, finding that and not caring about, you know, if I make a buck, I make a buck, if I don't, so be it. I wasn't supposed to make the buck. As long as I'm clothed, I have food, I have warmth, and most of all I have companionship. Because if we don't have companionship, whether it be a wife, a brother, a sister, a friend, whatever, that is who we are as a human being, we need each other. That's very important for people to understand.
[00:42:17] Michael Clogs: Yeah. That, that, that, that, and that's, that's kind of the, the, the, the whole point. I want people to, to know that and I support everybody to be able to at least voice their opinion. Sometimes they're, they're, the, the opinions are, are, they're a little out there, you know?
[00:42:40] Ed Watters: Yep.
[00:42:41] Michael Clogs: Uh, and other times they, they're, they're right with what people need to hear at the time, you know?
[00:42:48] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's so true.
[00:42:50] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:42:50] Ed Watters: You know, and, and as, as a host going out interviewing people all the time, the one thing that I recognize is everybody's got a story and they've got their why for that story .
[00:43:08] It's my job to just kind of shut up and let them try to tell me the best way they can, what their story is and why it matters so much. Even if I don't agree, it, it, it's what matters to them. And if you can't get that human connection through conversation without the judgment or the hostilities,
[00:43:36] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:43:36] Ed Watters: you're in a box. And I say, get outta your box and energize yourself by learning new, exciting things and meeting great people. Because a lot of people look and they see, and they've already made their decision, I don't want nothing to do with this guy. And, uh, that's so unfortunate so many times, you know?
[00:44:02] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:44:03] Ed Watters: That, that first, first appearance, it, it can be shattering in so many ways. How can we, uh, kind of get away from that attitude for people?
[00:44:18] Michael Clogs: Well, that's, that's, the thing is again, is, leads back to being open, you know? Um, you know that, that, that cliche saying, you, you can't judge a book by it's cover?
[00:44:30] Ed Watters: Yes, true.
[00:44:33] Michael Clogs: Open the book up, you know, and ask me a couple questions, you know?
[00:44:39] Ed Watters: That's right, open the book.
[00:44:41] Michael Clogs: I actually enjoy asking people questions, you know. It's like, and um, and I've had some, some people say that, it's like, I can't, can't interview everybody, but I can speak to a lot of people. And I've had people say, I, I found myself telling you something that I never told any, anybody else before. And it wasn't because I asked them, it was because I was open to what their story was.
[00:45:18] Ed Watters: That's important.
[00:45:20] Michael Clogs: Hey, you know what, what we do, what we do, uh, in, in our communities and especially our global communities as podcasters, it isn't everybody's, not everybody can do it, right? Not everybody can just appear
[00:45:33] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:45:33] Michael Clogs: And, and open, and open people up to their stories the way we do. Um, but when somebody comes, comes to you and they're, and they're, and they're troubled at the time, just as an ordinary person, you can sit and listen to them.
[00:45:57] Just sit and listen. I mean, it's, it's so important for, for us as, as human beings to know that somebody does listen. It is, I mean, I don't know of anything more important as a human being, is like, to know that you're being listened to.
[00:46:20] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:46:21] Michael Clogs: So,
[00:46:22] Ed Watters: Yeah, it's empowering.
[00:46:24] Michael Clogs: Yeah, yeah.
[00:46:26] Ed Watters: But that, that personal empowerment is very important and, uh, when, when we can help empower others just by simply listening, it's amazing. And, you know, the, the thing is, I didn't recognize that and I'm still learning to be a good listener. Just to, because there's so many times we want to interrupt when we need to shut up, you know, and, and let people just tell their story.
[00:46:57] And that art of learning when to say, excuse me, uh, that, that really can take some time. And when you learn to do that in a natural form, that makes the story even more involving, you know. It, it, it consumes you
[00:47:20] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:47:20] Ed Watters: and, and, and that's precisely what people are looking for. You stated earlier in our conversation about the media, you know, everybody's running from the media now. And they are really looking for conversation like this that is truly open and, you know, bringing stories that matter.
[00:47:45] And I, I've actually found out that people will listen to portions, some will listen to all, but everybody will not listen to all of your podcast. So we have to remember that when we're podcasters, we're not here for the numbers. Actually, we're here to put the story out. The numbers are, they will do themselves.
[00:48:16] So if you're worried about the numbers, stop it. You know, worry about the story and allowing people to tell it. You know, most media outlets, they bring you on, you get what, five minutes out of a 15 minute segment, and you can't tell a story in that time.
[00:48:38] Michael Clogs: No.
[00:48:38] Ed Watters: You know, you, you, you're like, well, what did I come here for? And this long format podcasting, this is what people are finding. And it, it's exponentially growing every day, year to year because people are finding this natural format and people are actually having conversations.
[00:49:05] Michael Clogs: Yeah. People, um, I had one, one person, uh, say to me, um, he was amazed when, um, when he looked, when he looked at our system. And he said, said, because we, we have something, some ridiculous amount of hours of broadcast out there,
[00:49:29] so it's, it's something like, uh, 1400, 1500 broadcast hours out there. Which you, you divide it up into, to 40 to 60 minute segments and it, the numbers really start to be like, oh. And this guy, um, he's a, um, award-winning, um, marketing agent and he's come up with some pretty interesting campaigns. He [00:50:00] even came up with a, with a campaign to market God, for a church. Like ,
[00:50:07] Ed Watters: Okay.
[00:50:08] Michael Clogs: and he, and he, he's, he, he's a fun guy, uh, out of New York, right? Um, and he said, say most, most of these things they fizzle after, after about eight episodes. He says, what's your secret? And, um, I think you found the same secret, Ed is, um, being fluid, you know?
[00:50:32] Ed Watters: That's right.
[00:50:32] Michael Clogs: Sit back, listen, be fluid and people keep coming back, you know?
[00:50:40] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:50:41] Michael Clogs: So.
[00:50:42] Ed Watters: Yeah. That, that's, that's the gift, you know, Michael, once you get that you don't wanna give it up. Even I, I don't care if people listen, you know, I, I'm here to do what I do and I enjoy what I do because I'm learning something. And that's exciting to me and when we can do that and share that with people, what more can you ask, you know?
[00:51:12] Michael Clogs: Exactly right.
[00:51:14] Ed Watters: Now you've been on the radio, you know, that's, that's a totally different atmosphere and a vibe. So what's the difference that you found between the radio vibe and meeting people here on podcasting?
[00:51:32] Michael Clogs: Control. I,
[00:51:35] Ed Watters: Control .
[00:51:36] Michael Clogs: this, this I control.
[00:51:39] Ed Watters: Ah. Yes.
[00:51:42] Michael Clogs: While I was on radio, um, I was going to interview a guest,
[00:51:47] a guest who had a, a pretty radical view on, on things, but again, hey, everybody has a voice and everybody should be given a chance to at least state their opinion at least once. And that person had some, um, some concerns about how we're supporting rights for the LGBTQ community versus how we are supporting rights for the heterosexual community.
[00:52:25] And long and short of it is, is there were some legitimate concerns that instead of freeing everyone, are we promoting one thing and suppressing someone else? And that was what their concern was. But when I talked about having to come on my radio show, the station manager said it isn't gonna happen. And the long and short of it was, is I got canceled on radio. But at that point, I already had started Depictions Media as a production company.
[00:53:16] I, and I said, well, I can't , I can't let them shut me up because people wanna hear what, what it is I have to say. And they were already looking for me on, uh, Apple, uh, podcast. And with, with that, they were, I found out people were already Googling my name or searching for my name on Apple Podcast, so why not take advantage of that?
[00:53:48] And we, we pushed forward. Um, it's not as expensive as people think it is to actually find a system that will help you link to all the different databases. With that, um, I am a more podcast databases now with Depictions Media than I was with the radio station, I had more limitations.
[00:54:18] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:54:19] Michael Clogs: So that conversation was a freeing conversation, you know. So,
[00:54:29] Ed Watters: Yeah, that, that distribution is much broader, that's for sure.
[00:54:33] Michael Clogs: Yeah. Yeah. Cause uh, I know Dead America's viewed, your on Apple podcast. I, I, when I went to, I searched the big ones, uh, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, and Spotify, and I type in Dead America, hey, there he is, my friend, Ed. He popped right up .
[00:54:52] Ed Watters: We're everywhere. We wanna be everywhere because it's not about my story, you know, it's about everybody's story and
[00:55:00] Michael Clogs: Right.
[00:55:01] Ed Watters: I, I don't care who, who it is, I wanna talk to them. And I've, I've had the gamut, you know, we, we, we don't discriminate because when our world is discriminatory, there's not room to grow. And that's what our world is lacking today, is that growth cycle of diversity.
[00:55:28] And the thoughts that hold us back are our own. So let's dive into other people's thoughts, know our world a little bit better. And yeah, I wanna be everywhere. Like you stated, that control, you control that RSS feed. Where you put it, that's yours, you know? And then there's always that legal aspect, if I need to write a letter and even have the attorney to send it to, you know, take that back,
[00:56:04] you know, there's those control mechanisms that you can use. But you definitely own your media and that's so important. Uh, a lot of people laugh at me because , look at you, you think you're a media company, no, I know I'm a media company. Why? Because I care about other people's stories and they will go out if it takes me three years to produce it, get it out.
[00:56:34] And that's where people lack, ambition, and that's where you find strength is through your own ambitions. So I, I don't allow people to dish on me. You know, I, I just, great, I, I love that input. You know, it's critical that I know who and what you are. So I want to know what people are saying.
[00:57:02] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:57:02] Ed Watters: That's how you know who the person is. So,
[00:57:05] Michael Clogs: Yeah, exactly.
[00:57:06] Ed Watters: give them the microphone.
[00:57:11] Michael Clogs: So I, I will say this, and, and it was one of the most exciting moments in, in my whole podcast career, um, if we can, if, if we can boil it down to just simply a career, um, is I was on a bus and I heard people talking about, not knowing that I was, that I was standing there listening to them on the bus, talking about my podcast.
[00:57:42] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:57:42] Michael Clogs: Like, wow. I was like, that's better than, than any statistic that, uh, that, that I could find on either through our marketing systems and, and all that kind of stuff. It's like that was, that was, it is like they were talking about. One of whom disagreed with me. Somebody else agreed. Somebody else was on the fence, but the conversation was about the topic matter that we had put out on that podcast.
[00:58:19] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[00:58:20] Michael Clogs: I was like, that's amazing.
[00:58:22] Ed Watters: It's crazy, isn't it?
[00:58:23] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:58:24] Ed Watters: I found you never know who's listening, you know? And, and the beauty of it, they, they keep coming back if they like it. So don't, don't let your own mind tell you that they don't like it because you're afraid of your own voice. A lot of people, they get stuck on that,
[00:58:48] I sound funny, I, I'm not getting on the microphone. Currently I'm going through the NaPodPoMo , it's every November, podcasters, they come together, NaPodPoMo.org , and they do 30 podcasts in 30 days. It doesn't matter if you do 30 in one day and release them all, as long as you do 30 podcasts in November, you've completed the challenge.
[00:59:18] And it's like a bootcamp for me every year, now. I, I just play with it, you know, because it keeps me sharp, it keeps me
[00:59:27] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[00:59:27] Ed Watters: going, looking for new people, new things. And it, it's a great thing to challenge who you are, what you think you know, because I found out I don't know as much as I think I know all the time. And I've, I've been, I've been humbled many times and I'm glad when I get humbled. When we find that spice and that need to help and knowing [01:00:00] that we're not all that, we're just here.
[01:00:04] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[01:00:04] Ed Watters: And I, I think you touched on it earlier, we're all kind of part of this big picture and it takes all of us to make it really spin. That's,
[01:00:16] Michael Clogs: Yeah, it does.
[01:00:17] Ed Watters: that's the world. So our world, what have you been doing for this year that has been exciting or not so exciting? What growth have you seen for yourself and what do you see for the coming new year?
[01:00:37] Michael Clogs: Well, for, for the coming new year, um, we do have a, a couple of, uh, new projects on the run. Um, I found my, I found myself immersed into a writing community, um, on Twitter. And, um, so with that, I'm, I'm looking to help serve them because some of them are, are, um, they're book writers and we, we've come up with a new, couple new show concepts.
[01:01:13] Um, one, uh, do, did you, we would probably be looking forward to, to have, actually have launched in the new year is Author By The Book. Um, and it involves, we, we, we have a, I have a copywriter on our team. There's, uh, Well, I, I will say this much, I am a solopreneur. Um, but you've gotta have team members, you know? Um,
[01:01:41] Ed Watters: That's right.
[01:01:41] Michael Clogs: and she's also a solopreneur, um, and that she does this copywriting. It's just her basically but we work together and we're gonna come up with a podcast called Author By The Book, where she's going to, cause she loves books, so she's gonna interview people. And I, I think that's gonna be an amazing thing.
[01:02:05] Um, and there's gonna be a few other, um, things that, that we're gonna be doing that, I'm still gonna have my podcast, but we're gonna have others come on Depictions under the Depictions Media label that will, um, they, they're gonna be talking, talking and not me so much. So, um, so a lot of growth that way.
[01:02:30] Ed Watters: That's nice.
[01:02:31] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[01:02:33] Ed Watters: Yeah.
[01:02:34] Michael Clogs: So.
[01:02:34] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's growth, you know, and, you know, I, I really think we, we need to think about growing in, in anything that we do. I, I hope we can get back together and do some more projects together in the future because
[01:02:53] Michael Clogs: Oh, yeah,
[01:02:54] Ed Watters: speaking
[01:02:54] Michael Clogs: I'm looking forward to that.
[01:02:55] Ed Watters: Is always good. And so, yeah, do you have any words of wisdom or calls to action for our listeners today, Michael?
[01:03:06] Michael Clogs: Well, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask this out of everybody listening, if you haven't found it yet, look for that, that subscribe button , click on it.
[01:03:19] Ed Watters: That's right.
[01:03:21] Michael Clogs: And um, also when, when you go to depictions.media, it's, um. There,
[01:03:29] that was another amazing story with, uh, with, with WordPress when I got ready to build our own website, that they had depictions.media available, can't get any better than that. You only had to remember Depictions Media, okay. So Google search, uh, Depictions Media, and you will find all about us, uh, every episode, um, that we have out there on three different, uh, podcasts.
[01:04:02] We have the Influencer Club, um, we have Policy and Rights, which, Ed, you appeared on Policy and Rights. Um,
[01:04:11] Ed Watters: Good episode.
[01:04:13] Michael Clogs: Yeah. And we also have, um, The Sunday Offering, where, hey, I, I, I put my reverend hat on and, and I, and I tell people how Jesus Christ just wants us to love each other and we need to open up our hearts to that one
[01:04:30] love that God put there for us. Um, so you'll find all that and, and if you go to , you go to Apple Podcasts, you go to Spotify, Google Play, um, help. We even appear in some database, um, in, um, Lithuania that, I'm not even joking, I got an email from, from somebody from, from Lithuania. Because we appear as one of the, one of the best podcasts to listen to, um, in English, not in, cause I, I don't translate. Um, in English,
[01:05:13] uh, one of the best podcasts to, to actually listen to. In that, in, in Eastern Europe . I was like, okay, wow.
[01:05:24] Ed Watters: Right on.
[01:05:25] Michael Clogs: Did he
[01:05:25] Ed Watters: You never know where you are.
[01:05:27] Michael Clogs: Right, you know. So, um, so yeah, find that subscribe button, click on it, um, go to depictions.media and get more information about who we are and, and what human rights actually means. And, um, Ed, thanks for having me, it's been awesome.
[01:05:50] Ed Watters: You know, Michael, it's been an actual pleasure sitting here discussing these things with you. And what we're doing is booming and those people that are sitting on the sideline just doing nothing but complaining, that's not where it's at. You gotta get in the game even though you think you don't matter,
[01:06:13] you matter, your voice matters. You've got to tell it and if, if you can't tell it, reach out to somebody like Michael or myself so we can help you get your story out to the world where it needs to be, I think it's very critical.
[01:06:30] Michael Clogs: Yeah.
[01:06:30] Ed Watters: And I wanna say thank you so much for doing what you do you're very active, always producing good content. And most of all, thank you for being part of the Dead America family here today.
[01:06:45] Michael Clogs: Yeah. Well, um, Depictions Media and Dead America, we're, we're family now .
[01:06:53] Ed Watters: We're going places, people. And, uh, listen to both of us, it's great content. And yes, take the time to go through the catalog, observe some of the content, and actually open yourself up to something new. And most of all, stand strong in what you believe in because that matters most.
[01:07:18] Michael Clogs: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
[01:07:25] Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational, in any way, please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.
Michael had me on one of his shows! Here it is: