Douglas Robbins Den of Discussion

Audio Episode

Douglas Robbins began his writing career at a young age, when one of his teachers asked the class to write a poem. In that moment he found a power in words that he’d never found anywhere else. Robbins grew up, attended college, and held jobs in numerous fields, from construction to insurance. The jobs changed, but his need to write remained a constant. According to Robbins, “As time passed, I started to write more seriously because it was the only profession that ever made sense. It wasn’t so much a career move. It was a move out of necessity.” He released his first novel, The Reluctant Human, in 2012. He quickly followed it up with the novella Max Johnny, and a book of short stories, Leaves Piled High. In 2019 he released Narican: The Cloaked Deception, his first book in this sci-fi series. Love in a Dying Town: The story of a single father struggling to raise his daughter in a dying factory town. It is a story about love, commitment, and sacrifice. It is due out in 2021. In 2022 we should see the second and third book in the Narican series. Robbins lives in the Catskill Mountains of New York with his wife and family. Follow his writing, news and updates, at

Douglas Robbins

[00:00:00] Douglas Robbins: You know, some of the Zen books I've studied, you know, when you get away from all the crap, and you just get back to the simple, it's like, Oh, I can breathe again. You know, you go into nature, you can breathe again. No requirements, like I said. Um, but always people who are, who are one step ahead of me, you know, like the Tony Robbins's of the world

[00:00:19] and, um, people go, Oh, yeah, there is a way you can live powerfully. And often our negatives, and our self image issues, and whatever we're struggling with say, Oh no, you got to be this guy, you got to be mediocre, you got to live small. And it's a dangerous place because that part of you still wants to live big.

[00:00:42] So it's this conflict. And it's like, well, which side do you want to win? Do you want the crappy side that in five years, you're still going to be in the same place with the same complaints? Or do you want to say, Hey, I'm going to be vulnerable here, put myself out with the best self that I can and keep following that thread or that strand because they're someone special. And everyone has something special that they want to share, that they need to share, that calls to them. So,

[00:01:16] Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand. The way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something right now.

[00:02:07] Today we're speaking with Douglas Robbins. He is a writer and a podcast host. His podcast, The Den of Discussion. Could you please introduce yourself, Douglas, and let people know just a little more about you, please?

[00:02:24] Douglas Robbins: Hi, yeah, my name is Douglas Robbins. I'm the writer of I think about a half a dozen books at this point. Uh, one is a sci fi series that I'm working on. The second book on, uh, which is really about the battle over the evolution of souls, sort of the negative and the positives that we all sort of struggle with more on a global or universal level, if you will. With all sorts of crazy characters and entities, um, fighting for both sides and their reasons why. Uh, but I often write about redemption and redemptive qualities of the human and, um, trying to, you know, sacrifice and coming together. Maybe as a father, my book, Love in a Dying Town is about a father raising a single daughter in a dying factory town where sort of the American dream is crumbling.

[00:03:09] But you still have to be a father, you still have to be a parent and raise the child, and show right from wrong, and show what a good man is about. Um, so I often write about people on the fringe, not so much glamorous people, uh, celebrity culture does not interest me. Uh, really writing about everyday people overcoming challenges and essentially pushing the needle forward, pushing humanity forward.

[00:03:33] And that's similar to what I speak about on the podcast, The Den of Discussion. Spirituality, creativity, people overcoming challenges and making a difference in their lives and or their, um, industries. And then obviously that then changes the world one by one.

[00:03:53] Ed Watters: That is exactly what we think here at the Dead America Podcast. Through discussions, we learn about each other and we

[00:04:01] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:04:01] Ed Watters: highlight those unnecessary challenges that the younger generation will not have to go through if we're able to stand up and speak out. You do

[00:04:14] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:04:14] Ed Watters: that really well. Uh, you're writing a blog, you're doing a podcast, you're writing all these books. What got you started in the love of writing and wanting to speak out in general?

[00:04:31] Douglas Robbins: Uh, you know, it's funny, I would love to say, Oh, I was a child that read religiously and that's all I did. I sat in my room and read. No, I really was a terrible student. I wanted nothing to do with school, I seldom

[00:04:43] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:04:43] Douglas Robbins: read. There was a couple books I liked as a kid, but for the most part, I was all about being outside playing, being in nature. But nature is sort of the key for me because that's sort of where everything slows down. Where the simple is, where the divine is, if you will. Uh, and there's something as a kid I really struggled with, self confidence, self image. I thought I was stupid as a child, um, felt very alone in that way. You know, it was a big school I went to, 35-40 kids in a classroom, just production line. But in nature, I realized even at a young age, there's no judgment.

[00:05:21] There's no requirement, there's no expectation, it is simply being. Uh, and I think those sort of, like, observations I started having as a child, and I was very, um, um, uh, rebellious. And I didn't believe the nationalism and sort of all the things that school was trying to indoctrinate me into. Uh, the consumerism, um, you know, the clicks and all those things of images. If you just wear these jeans, you'll be, you'll be someone special.

[00:05:54] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:05:54] Douglas Robbins: And, um, none of that ever made sense, it always rung hollow to me. Uh, so sort of those thoughts always were sort of there, even though when I was a child, again, I didn't know how to honor them or express them. And I was rejected a lot as a kid by my parents and in school. So that hence kind of just fueled the rebellious, um, you know, personality. But ideas always excited me. Um, and then as I got a little older, I started reading a little bit more, say Zen, or philosophy, or whatever it might be, things that just resonated with me. And I was in a band, had the long hair, you know, rock and roller. And, uh, would write some, some songs and write some poetry. And, uh, you know, the story goes that I, that I was in a high school class, um, and the instructor said, you know, for us to write a poem. And I wrote the poem and it's a kind of funny little, little tongue in cheek,

[00:06:56] uh, it was actually about religion. And one line was, um, uh, All you do with religion. Religion is the lifelong betrayal, all you do is put a lot of money in the mail. That was kind of a silly little line, but that was the line. And my father even, even liked it, gave me approval, which I seldom got from him. Um, and the classroom laughed.

[00:07:18] And so there was a power in it. I was like, Holy crap. There's something to this, there's something to words. And words are really fascinating because they can fall flat and have no impact, or they can sweep you off your feet with like a Martin Luther King Jr. speech or something along those lines. Um, so, words, you know, yes, deeds also change the world, but it starts often with words and thoughts.

[00:07:46] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's, that's really wise. You know, I was going through your blog and number 26, I like

[00:07:58] Douglas Robbins: Which one is that?

[00:07:59] Ed Watters: picking up the garbage. And you talk about walking by this trash on a trail with your family

[00:08:08] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:08:08] Ed Watters: and were just ignoring it, you know, walking by and all of a sudden you say, I wish I had a bag to pick this garbage up.

[00:08:19] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:08:20] Ed Watters: And there, there turns up a bag. You start

[00:08:24] Douglas Robbins: Yes.

[00:08:24] Ed Watters: picking this garbage up, and then all of a sudden, people that see you, they start mimicking this.

[00:08:33] Douglas Robbins: Yes.

[00:08:34] Ed Watters: I like that concept, and I push this a lot. Do what you have to do, no matter what people are thinking, or even yourself, how you feel and think. If you do it, and you know it's right, people will start mimicking it.

[00:08:54] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:08:54] Ed Watters: Talk to us about that a little bit.

[00:08:58] Douglas Robbins: Yeah. Well, it was fascinating because we often go down to the beach and, you know, there's, it's, I'm, in a, you know, joking manner I say, Oh, the ocean is coughing this stuff up because it doesn't want it.

[00:09:14] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:09:14] Douglas Robbins: It's spitting it back out. And yeah, we were walking one day, there was just trash everywhere. And walking with my wife, and she even said, Oh man, I wish there was a bag. And so maybe a couple of steps later, there's a huge black glad garbage bag, totally intact. And so we started picking up the garbage. Now we don't live there and we had actually never been to this one section of beach.

[00:09:47] So we started picking it up, myself, my wife and my daughter. And now it was like something larger than us, something exciting, like we were doing something good. Because it's very easy just to be [00:10:00] desensitized, and programmed, and walk by, whatever. Well, I didn't put that garbage there, why should I be responsible

[00:10:06] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:10:06] Douglas Robbins: for it?

[00:10:07] Well, you're responsible for it because you're a caring, compassionate human. That's why you're responsible for it. You want to do right in the world, and my goodness, the amount of things that the Earth gives us, everything is given to us by the Earth. So we started picking up and then, yeah, people who clearly had lived there, they're walking their dogs there. This is kind of a routine for, for them. A few of them just said, Hey, thank you. Which is nice in itself, just being acknowledged for something

[00:10:35] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:10:35] Douglas Robbins: that you're doing. Um, but then others just started picking up and bringing it over to us or picking it up and putting it in their, their, their doggy poop bags or whatever it was. And there was probably five or ten people by the time we left, were picking up garbage. Now, is it going to make a huge change? No, but if people started thinking in these ways, Oh, it's not about me, I didn't put it there. So what? You can make a difference though, you can help things. The other thing that, that, that weighs on me, and it's something I might try to, to do is, you know, I'm sure wherever you live, you see dead animals on the side of the road everywhere.

[00:11:17] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:11:17] Douglas Robbins: And most people just go, Ehh, it's, you know, they don't even think about it. They just associate with, it's part of, um, collateral damage, basically from we're driving and oh, well. But it becomes so commonplace that we just sort of go, Yeah, it's sad, but I got to get to the store. Um, and here's the thing that, like, you know, we are the cause of this. We're the cause of all this stuff, all the garbage, all these poor dead animals. Um, and it's heartbreaking to see. So I might start a little organization or something to really bring this to light a little bit. Because it's just, they're just, first of all, their, their, their space has been encroached upon, that's why they're already in the road and looking

[00:12:06] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:12:06] Douglas Robbins: for food because of us to begin with. Um, so like, I guess what I'm getting at and you're getting at is, that there's always something we can do that's bigger than us. And we can always help

[00:12:17] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:12:18] Douglas Robbins: them, it's big enough. So it's my, I'm just a little piece, you're a little piece, but if you have a lot of little pieces, now you make a difference.

[00:12:25] Ed Watters: That's right and the puzzle fits. It's a symbiotic relationship and we all need each other. And

[00:12:33] Douglas Robbins: Yes, Sir.

[00:12:33] Ed Watters: the fighting that we get is just, it blows me away that we are so childish in our ways, in our actions at times. And you're pointing these things out through your podcast, your books, your blog. Uh, the other blog post that touched me was the Gotcha, Got, or Gotta, Gotta, Gotta. It's not a plate anymore, it's more like a platter or a table and we still pile

[00:13:06] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:13:06] Ed Watters: more and more on.

[00:13:08] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:13:08] Ed Watters: This is clever and yeah, it's so true and relevant in our world.

[00:13:14] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:13:15] Ed Watters: Talk to us about that scenario.

[00:13:18] Douglas Robbins: Well, if I recall it correctly, I mean, the gotta, gotta, gotta is that we're just plugged in. And we're plugged into this sort of manmade structure of, oh, my God, I got to do this over here and fifteen things over here. And there's, uh, social media, and there is no space, there's no time. And the old line is, Oh, my plate is full. Well, I said to someone like, Well, it's really a platter at this point. They just keep piling more crap on. And then it's going to be

[00:13:47] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:13:47] Douglas Robbins: a table because there's no, and there becomes less and less space for you because it's all these things now. These external things that we attribute to, we have to do X to be Y and the truth is the opposite of that. The more you stop doing the gotta, gotta, gotta, the more you can actually fulfill your life on your life's journey and purpose, uh, in a simpler manner. But the gotta, gotta, gotta is just that stressed out, working too hard,

[00:14:24] got your head in, in, in the game and, but nothing else. You're the worker ant with the head. Um, when it's really like, we're so much broader, deeper and more sophisticated than that. Um, so I always quote this line because it's so poignant, and I'm a big fan of the progressive rock band Jethro Tull. So there's a song called Skating Away on the Thin Ice of a New Day, and one of the opening lines is, I was born to humanity and sold to society.

[00:14:57] And we never think, Oh, there really is a difference here. Humanity and society are not the same thing. Society was born out of humanity and now our creations are entrapping us. And this is something I think through COVID and with the economy right now, I think people are starting to step back a little bit and realize, Hey, was all this buying crap and consumerism and, you know, giving up all my time, was that making my life better? And I think people are realizing also with the destruction and damaging of the earth, this is really not going in the way that we thought it was going to be going.

[00:15:42] Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that. You know, COVID, even though it wreaked havoc with a lot of people, it brought a lot of awareness. And, and the big thing that I, I really think about a lot now is, you know, people really had to spend a lot of time with themselves.

[00:16:05] Douglas Robbins: Absolutely.

[00:16:06] Ed Watters: And, and, and doing that is really needed in the world. We have to know ourselves. If we can't live with ourselves, how can we live with anybody else?

[00:16:20] Douglas Robbins: Well, I think so many of us are disconnected from themselves and that's why they're just sort of heads in the world. Um, not

[00:16:27] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:16:27] Douglas Robbins: selves, not individuals, just sort of this programming of, of engagement, and stress, and, um, watching TV and playing video games on it. Like, well, how are you moving yourself forward if essentially you're just hiding from whatever is going on within you? Fear, and pain, and vulnerability, whatever it might be.

[00:16:48] Um, but no, I think you're absolutely right, people started stepping back. They had more time to, um, to introspect. But, you know, also fascinating on a, on a global scale because so many things shut down. Planes, and shipping, and trains, and all these things. Like all these animals started migrating back into the Venice canals and animals were seen for the first time in 100 years in all these places. And that was just from a couple months of pausing.

[00:17:19] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:17:19] Douglas Robbins: And so it

[00:17:20] Ed Watters: Interesting.

[00:17:20] Douglas Robbins: shows you like there's a world underneath that's trying to live and we're suffocating it. We're suffocating it and we're suffocating ourselves.

[00:17:31] Ed Watters: That's right. You know, it's interesting that you bring that up. I live in Klamath County, Oregon, not far from Crater Lake National Park

[00:17:42] Douglas Robbins: Nice.

[00:17:43] Ed Watters: and I'm on this big migration path. And for a long time, I didn't see the influx of the migration. And this year, we saw species coming through that we've never seen before.

[00:18:03] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:18:03] Ed Watters: And I, I'm really wondering, now that you bring that to my attention, how much of that effect from COVID actually did allow. Because less traffic, less cars on the road, less road kill. Very interesting concept, I'm glad you brought that up. It gives thought to a needed process

[00:18:30] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:18:30] Ed Watters: that needs changed.

[00:18:32] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:18:32] Ed Watters: And also I've noticed that through like the I- 5 corridor and some of these major corridors, they're putting these overpass areas that allow the animals to migrate through.

[00:18:49] Douglas Robbins: Yes.

[00:18:49] Ed Watters: And it might not be a big thing, but it is a minute success that is

[00:18:55] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:18:55] Ed Watters: allowing that, uh, going across the road without the action of being hit by a car.

[00:19:07] Douglas Robbins: Yeah. And I've seen a lot of those and I've seen some videos of those, um, wilderness corridors or whatever you call them, and it's fascinating. You'll see cougars, and bears, and raccoons, and

[00:19:18] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:19:18] Douglas Robbins: everything else walking across. Deer, uh, for instance, something I wish I had where I live. So I live in New York about two hours north of the city. And, um, I was driving back up at I-87 the other day and I saw this black furry thing on the side of the road, on the interstate. It was a bear that had been hit and it was like

[00:19:43] Ed Watters: Oh, wow.

[00:19:44] Douglas Robbins: my heart sank. I'm used to seeing deer and squirrels and that's sad in itself, but you see this more rare, precious, I mean, they're all precious, but it just, uh, it was heartbreaking. See, it's [00:20:00] just us.

[00:20:02] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:20:02] Douglas Robbins: We're distracted and, or something runs in front of us, we don't have time to stop. We're creating all of this, the choking off of life. The reason like, you know, I mean, all these canals and waterways, it's like, if you just take the, stop the pollution for a few weeks, it'll clean itself. It'll start, the ecosystem will start cleaning itself, but we don't. We just keep choking,

[00:20:30] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:20:30] Douglas Robbins: and choking, and choking, um, and really don't take responsibility for it. Ehh, it's dying off, what can you do?

[00:20:38] Ed Watters: Yeah, that's right. You know, we tend to augment ourselves with technologies that are destructive in many means. And with that technology advancement, we've really started going way faster than we were ever meant to go.

[00:20:57] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:20:58] Ed Watters: You know, and we don't take the time to just enjoy what's in front of us. I think it's so important that we slow down and just catch up. You know,

[00:21:10] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:21:10] Ed Watters: catch up to what already has occurred, you've

[00:21:13] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:21:14] Ed Watters: missed so much already. So that, that hurry, high speed life, I just don't like it at all. And that's why we moved out here to nowhere

[00:21:30] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:21:30] Ed Watters: and we kind of try to stay here as much as possible. Uh, tell us about some of your books because you've got, I, I know six. Do you have more than six books?

[00:21:44] Douglas Robbins: Man, I have so many that are like halfway down or done, or three quarters done. And it's like, um, you know, it's a long game, that's for sure. Um, yeah, I mean, I have a few stories, um, I have so many stories to tell. And, and, you know, it's hard transferring essentially from this energetic plane, if you will, or thought plane, or sacred plane, into the physical. Because the physical is where the work is, right? And, uh, it's easy to say, Well, I have a story. It's like, well, great, put it to paper. How many people have said, Oh, you should write my story. It's like, I don't want to write your story, you write your story. Um,

[00:22:27] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:22:28] Douglas Robbins: but, you know, again, it's usually about, uh, family dynamics, or healing some past wound, redemption. Um, uh, to me, I mean, everything that drives me really is about the evolution of the individual and therefore the evolution of humanity. Um, because that's really what we're here to do is move forward, is grow. Um, so, you know, I had an early book called The Reluctant Human, which came out, uh, 10-12 years ago or something. Um, and that was one more of like anger and purging demons and, um, that duality of,

[00:23:10] he's filled with regrets because he knows he should be living a better life. Um, it was sort of my Charles Bukowskiesque, uh, you know, uh, writing style. But, um, you know, I have another book called Max Johnny, which is about a big shot writer who kind of loses his way. Uh, and he's got a deep, dark, dark secret as to why. And he, you know, some, some, some turn of events of meeting some people, um, that he's able to sort of free himself and free the writing. Because he hadn't written in a few years because of this dark secret.

[00:23:45] Um, so, you know, again, it's a, it's about these interpersonal, um, stories, Americana quite often. Um, what one thing, you know, so if people sign up for my website or sign up for my blogs, they get a free story called Barbecue dinner. Which is about, and it's very poignant now, about a gentleman who's running a business and the business is failing.

[00:24:09] Um, and he's afraid to tell his wife. He keeps putting on these airs that his business is doing so well. Um, he's a stepfather, so he doesn't want to fail the children and the kids. Um, and it's a way of, he feels very isolated in it. Uh, and eventually it comes out that this is what's happening. And she knows all along that his business is struggling, but she was waiting for him sort of to, to share.

[00:24:35] But again, it's a, it's redemption, family dynamics, love. Uh, and also, you know, ownership of where you're struggling. Because if you don't take ownership, it will eat you alive and usually will devour any relationships you're trying to have. Because it's the undertow pulling you under.

[00:24:59] Ed Watters: That's powerful right there. So let's talk about inspiration.

[00:25:04] Douglas Robbins: Yes, sir.

[00:25:05] Ed Watters: You obviously are a very inspirational individual. Who inspired you?

[00:25:15] Douglas Robbins: To write or, or

[00:25:17] Ed Watters: Just in general, who is your inspirational individuals through life that really kept you going through some of the hardest times?

[00:25:30] Douglas Robbins: Well, some of the hardest times knocked me to my knees, that is for sure. Um, and wasn't on one occasion. I mean, usually friends, um, sister had been good. My wife is a remarkably strong woman and really inspirational to me. Um, some of the people I've read, um, you know, some of the Zen books I've studied. You know, when you get away from all the crap and you just get back to the simple it's like, Oh, I can breathe again. You know, you go into nature, you can breathe again. No requirements, like I said. Um, but always people who are, who are one step ahead of me, you know, like the Tony Robbins of the world.

[00:26:13] And, um, people go, Oh, yeah, there is a way you can live powerfully. And often our negatives, and our self image issues, and whatever we're struggling with say, Oh, no, you got to be this guy, you got to be mediocre, you got to live small. And it's a dangerous place because that part of you still wants to live big. So it's this conflict.

[00:26:37] And it's like, Well, which side do you want to win? Do you want the crappy side that in five years, you're still going to be in the same place with the same complaints? Or do you want to say, Hey, I'm going to be vulnerable here, put myself out with the best self that I can and keep following that thread or that strand because there's someone special. And everyone has something special that they want to share, that they need to share, that calls to them.

[00:27:04] So that's really what it is. It's that sort of, to, not to get esoteric or weird, but it's that higher self that's always saying, Hey, man, you can do better. Here's the, here's the guidance, here's the GPS on, keep listening, keep believing, you know. And that I think is something we all have, we often shut it out. And there was a period I shut it out

[00:27:33] when I was lost 15, 20 years ago. And because, well, where is it? You know, again, we're caught up on the busyness, and the stress, and the pay and the bills, but there's still that voice saying, Hey, hey, Ed, you're a great guy. You could do this, keep trying, keep believing. And it is a battle sometimes between our ego,

[00:27:56] the mind that basically doesn't care if you grow or not. Because it just wants to keep you where you are. Or those places in you that try to keep you safe, even though it's counterproductive. Because it's not keeping you safe, it's keeping you in pain. And that place that's like off on that hillside.

[00:28:13] You're like, Hey, that's really beautiful over there, I really want to get there. And so there are times, like I said, I've shut that off and said, No, it's crap, it's a lie. But then it always comes back around and it's like, oh, yeah, that's my best self. So that is really more than anything what keeps me alive and moving forward.

[00:28:36] Ed Watters: Yeah, well, we really have to keep our minds in check. And being inspired, I like that you're inspired by that close knitness and that achieve mentality. It really is, you have to really look inside for self help or any personal development going on.

[00:29:02] Douglas Robbins: Yep.

[00:29:02] Ed Watters: And it's really needed in our world today because we're kind of narcissistic and

[00:29:08] Douglas Robbins: Yes.

[00:29:08] Ed Watters: we, we have this mentality that we're owed, we're really not owed anything.

[00:29:16] Douglas Robbins: No.

[00:29:16] Ed Watters: And

[00:29:16] Douglas Robbins: No.

[00:29:16] Ed Watters: If we want something, you do have to create it. So this is where creatives come in.

[00:29:26] Douglas Robbins: Yeah. And I mean, you're hitting such an important point is just because this has been the design of our society or whatever you want to call it, culture for 100 years, 150 years, you know, uh, post industrial revolution type of thing. More and more honed, more and more, you know, acute micromanaged more and more. But Just because that's the design of it, had it, has been this, doesn't mean it needs to continue being that. Because I think we're all learning, yeah, [00:30:00] this old way isn't working.

[00:30:02] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:30:03] Douglas Robbins: We all need more support, we all need more love, we all need more community again to help with the beach and those kind of things. Because we all, all are in this together even though there's so much divisiveness politically, et cetera. Ultimately, everybody still wants, for the most part, the same things, fairness, justice, clean water. I mean, you're an idiot if you don't want clean water, right?

[00:30:30] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:30:30] Douglas Robbins: Clean air, um, all these simple things that we really overlook that we do share. And, you know, why is everyone saying that? Because they feel like there's some injustice done to them,

[00:30:45] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:30:45] Douglas Robbins: right? That's where anger comes from is you were not acknowledged, you were not loved, you know, uh, someone did you wrong. And so it's easy to, again, look externally and say, Oh, that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy. Well, it's often you got to look at yourself or wherever you came from. Because, you know, does anyone really want to see someone violated or harmed? Generally speaking not. And if you do, that means you have some real damage to yourself that you need to work on. I

[00:31:15] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:31:15] Douglas Robbins: always look at it like it's a community. Let's say we were a tribal, uh, a tribe of some sort. Well, tribes work in coherence, in congruence with each other, right? Um, and again, it's for the bigger group. But that's the thing with our society, it's often about that individual. Which is great, we all want to be strong individuals. But the dark side of that is you're very alone,

[00:31:43] you're isolated. You look at social media, you feel powerless. You look at the world or the garbage on the ocean, Well, I didn't put that there. I'm not helping, right? That's just feeding as they say, which wolf are you going to feed? Well, that's the wrong wolf to be feeding.

[00:31:59] Ed Watters: That's right, that's right. And when we wake up to that, that's when life gets better. And there's, there is a point where that shift is occurring. I really think we're close to that, uh,

[00:32:12] Douglas Robbins: I agree.

[00:32:13] Ed Watters: I,I hope. So,

[00:32:16] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:32:16] Ed Watters: uh, do you have a call to action for our listeners today, Douglas?

[00:32:20] Douglas Robbins: Yeah. I mean, I would love for people, of course, to buy all of my books, Ed. No, I'm kidding. I mean, of course, that'd be nice. But, um, no, if people want to learn more about me, you can find me at, uh, with two b's and Douglas. Like I said, if you sign up for, for my little, um, email, which you get the podcast, and you get, you know, book updates, you do get that free story Barbecue dinner. Or if people just want to email me any question, they can certainly, uh, find me there as well. So,

[00:32:50] Ed Watters: So the best way to get ahold of you is through the website?

[00:32:54] Douglas Robbins: Website or, or the, or they can find me on Facebook @ douglasrobbinsauthor. Um, again, you can find my, uh, my podcast, uh, Den of Discussion. Uh, I think it's on Podpage to host. Um, but, uh, yeah, a few ways to find me.

[00:33:12] Ed Watters: Good enough. I, I really like what you're doing, Douglas. It's got meaning to it, direction to it, and it brings hope to a lot of people that need it. Thank you for being part of the Dead America Podcast today.

[00:33:29] Douglas Robbins: Well, maybe the next series will be called Live America, Renewed America.

[00:33:35] Ed Watters: Actually, uh, we are working on some spinoff series. Just we're small and we're growing

[00:33:43] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:33:43] Ed Watters: and keep going.

[00:33:44] Douglas Robbins: Can I keep you for another minute?

[00:33:46] Ed Watters: Sure.

[00:33:47] Douglas Robbins: So, you know, something that I, I've often thought about is, is America. And, but more on like, well, what is the real meaning of America? And I think America to many people is the best symbolizing, it doesn't always execute, but symbolizing the best of what we can be. And I don't mean that in a nationalistic manner. I mean,

[00:34:14] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:34:14] Douglas Robbins: the idea of America is the best ideals. And so actually, um, going to come out with a website soon called American Ideals. Because I think that's really what, what drives everyone is that, again, it's that better self.

[00:34:32] It's that better version, the better community, the better, not comparing it to another nation, but the better than we are. So you say Dead America is the title. Well, there are parts of it that probably should die. But

[00:34:46] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:34:46] Douglas Robbins: the good stuff, the good stuff, and we need to stop letting corporations dictate all of our laws.

[00:34:52] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:34:54] Douglas Robbins: Because right there, you have a problem. You're allowing business to control everything. And only some things, um, should really be relating to business, such as our pollution issue and islands of plastic in the ocean. We need to do something about, you know,

[00:35:11] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:35:11] Douglas Robbins: this. The ocean provides fish and everything else under the sun and we're killing it. Well, we're also killing ourselves. And because, you know, global warming or whatever else is going on, dying off of fish. So, it's this cyclical thing. But it all starts from these policies that are not about moving the world forward. And I think that's what you and I are trying to do, and others, trying to move the world forward. But if you have policies that suffocate the world, very hard to move forward.

[00:35:41] Ed Watters: That's, that's very true. You know, the concept behind Dead America is, there's a lot of people feeling like we're lost,

[00:35:50] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:35:50] Ed Watters: there's no hope, and we're destroyed. Well, this, this Dead America actually grabs them and says, Yeah, I want to know what that means. What do you mean by that? Well, I mean that we are in a hurt. But like you said, our principles and our values, we are that beacon of hope in the world. And if we don't have these hard discussions, meaningful discussions, we're going to lose that beacon and we're already tarnished enough.

[00:36:28] Douglas Robbins: Yes.

[00:36:29] Ed Watters: And it's up to our generation, the here and the now, to ensure that beacon of hope goes forward for generations to come. There is, and, you know, it's sickening to me that on both sides of this government that we have here in America, we have individuals that are destructing us from the inside. And that's what our forefathers have warned us about. I, I, I use, well, I still have Freecircle Freedoms, but I really am incorporating it now into the Dead America theme. So we have been talking about that a lot. We really need to stand up, speak out, and get bold without hate and violence. You know,

[00:37:27] Douglas Robbins: Right.

[00:37:27] Ed Watters: there's no need for that. What we need is logical, factual. And, you know, science isn't always right, but the, the scientific model, that is what we should really look at to go

[00:37:46] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:37:46] Ed Watters: forward with. Because it

[00:37:48] Douglas Robbins: Because of guidelines.

[00:37:48] Ed Watters: requires, yes, it requires some sort of measurement. And, you know, yeah, we're, we're really, uh, on a mission here. And

[00:38:00] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:38:00] Ed Watters: I don't care how long it takes, uh, I've got until I die. So that's what we're about.

[00:38:09] Douglas Robbins: That sounds beautiful, man. So I think we're very similar in that way. You know, again, it'd be nice if you saw more critical thinking in the world. But people just see whatever

[00:38:18] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:38:18] Douglas Robbins: crazy ass story narrative

[00:38:20] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:38:20] Douglas Robbins: and they just react and go kaboom. And

[00:38:24] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:38:24] Douglas Robbins: people say, you know, there have been studies that people can't even tell the difference between fake news, real news, whatever it is, because it's presented in the same fashion. Um, and I would say to anybody who is just so consumed with these things, like, again, pull your head out of it. Pull your being out of it, start just looking at it from afar a little bit. You know, this whole thing, not to go on, but like with Paul Pelosi, who got attacked and there's so many already crazy stories about it.

[00:38:56] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:38:57] Douglas Robbins: It's like, look, there was, what comes down to it is, it was an old man who got attacked. That's, you know, how I see it. Obviously, it was a political thing. But, um, it's just like, I don't care which side someone's on, come at it with integrity, come at it with empathy. You know, like he's, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, Paul Pelosi is not your enemy all of a sudden,

[00:39:19] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:39:19] Douglas Robbins: you know.

[00:39:20] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:39:22] Douglas Robbins: So,

[00:39:22] Ed Watters: He got hit with a hammer.

[00:39:24] Douglas Robbins: He got hit with a friggin hammer, right?

[00:39:27] Ed Watters: I can tell you that hurts. So

[00:39:30] Douglas Robbins: Right.

[00:39:30] Ed Watters: it's, yeah.

[00:39:32] Douglas Robbins: I mean,

[00:39:32] Ed Watters: Yeah, we live in a crazy time. And I really think that this mindset shift is occurring and

[00:39:39] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:39:39] Ed Watters: podcasting is helping this. Because if, it really forces people to listen. Now the video portion, a lot of people, you know, they tend to get distracted. When we have visual distraction in front of us, [00:40:00] our listening capability diminishes. So I really like just the audio podcast

[00:40:10] Douglas Robbins: Yeah.

[00:40:11] Ed Watters: and people listen.

[00:40:12] Douglas Robbins: Right.

[00:40:13] Ed Watters: And it's intent, you know,

[00:40:14] Douglas Robbins: Yes.

[00:40:15] Ed Watters: people are intending to listen. That's where you're going to get change.

[00:40:20] Douglas Robbins: Yeah. All I know is my friend, it starts on the ground, not at the top. And it starts with you and I.

[00:40:25] Ed Watters: That's right. That's right. Grassroot it up and grow something that means something, it matters.

[00:40:33] Douglas Robbins: Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

[00:40:35] Ed Watters: Douglas, I, I really like what you're doing and I appreciate your time. And if I can help you in any way, reach out. I'm always willing to help a podcaster, it's, it's a good way to push change.

[00:40:52] Douglas Robbins: Absolutely. If I can help as well, please let me know. But, you know, it's been such a pleasure being on the show and I love podcasting because we're speaking to people we would never speak to. We're getting a word out

[00:41:03] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:41:03] Douglas Robbins: that we wouldn't have, be able to otherwise. And, um, you know, I feel like you're kind of a brother of mine. I just met you an hour ago, so

[00:41:11] Ed Watters: That's right. That's what we're pushing for, welcome to the family.

[00:41:15] Douglas Robbins: Thank you, my friend.

[00:41:19] Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.