The Essence of Human-Centric Systems

Season 19 Cover art


The Essence of Human-Centric Systems with Michaell Magrutsche

In this engaging episode of the Dead America Podcast, returning guest Michaell Magrutsche, a multidisciplinary artist, dives deep into the concept of ‘Human-Centricity.’ Michaell emphasizes the importance of focusing on individual uniqueness and the collective nature of humans to create systems that serve rather than enslave. He discusses the flaws in existing financial and political systems, advocating for an updated approach that places human essence at the forefront. Michaell also touches on the roles of art, the significance of conversations in learning, and the detrimental effects of generalizing individuals. Through this inspiring and thought-provoking conversation, Michaell and host Ed Watters plead for a shift towards systems that value human diversity and contribution, ultimately fostering a more fulfilling and balanced society.


00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:38 The Concept of Human-Centricity

03:42 The Role of Money in Human Systems

06:24 The Impact of System Relevance on Individuals

12:53 The Architecture of Human-Centric Systems

21:24 The Balance Between Systems and Humanity

27:22 Redefining Human Identity

28:08 Systems of Yesterday vs. Today

28:35 Tall Poppy Syndrome and Individual Recognition

30:53 The Flaws in Financial Systems

32:20 Human-Centric Systems and Politics

33:33 The Role of Media and Politics

35:51 The Importance of Human-Centricity

43:25 Climate Change and Human Responsibility

47:55 The Power of Conversation and Podcasting

48:57 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Embracing Human-Centricity: An Insightful Conversation with Michaell Magrutsche on Dead America Podcast



In today's illuminating episode of the Dead America Podcast, we reconnect with our returning guest, Michaell Magrutsche. As a multidisciplinary artist and strategist, Michaell shares profound insights into Human-Centricity, a concept that aligns perfectly with our quest for meaningful conversation and understanding.

The Conversation Begins

*Ed Watters*: Today we are with a returning guest, Michaell Magrutsche. He is a multidisciplinary artist, uh, strateg...

*Michaell Magrutsche*: Leave that in. Leave that in, Ed. It's beautiful, don't even explain what I am. People don't want, I don't want to know if it's an Oscar...

Human-Centricity Explained

*Ed Watters*: So Michaell, why don't you jump in and tell us, what does Human-Centricity mean and how does it apply to us?

*Michaell Magrutsche*: It's like a super word and I didn't invent it, but I found this was the most, the word that is most accurate to our human condition. We are all individuals, eight billion one of one, humans. Scientifically, every human has different DNA, fingerprints, ears, blah, blah, blah. What nobody tells you is that everybody, plus, so there's eight billion unique life perspectives.

Human-Centricity encapsulates the essence of our existence – that we are all unique, interconnected, and part of a larger system that we collectively create. Unlike ants or elephants, humans have the innate ability to create and reshape their own habitat, their systems, which Michaell believes should be artworks reflective of our individuality and collective cooperation.

The Dance of Human Potential

*Michaell Magrutsche*: We are creators of systems, like an ant hill being meticulously beautiful, our systems should reflect our collective creativity rather than the systemic monotony we observe. But our current systems often drive us into a state of "lack" and detachment from our true selves.

*Michaell Magrutsche*: The dance of human potential is magical. When we see each other as unique beings and interact on that level, it becomes a fulfilling experience, a dance, rather than a mechanical transaction dictated by systems.

Overcoming Systemic Challenges

*Ed Watters*: Systems try to define us, and sometimes humans have no definition, because they're impulsive. You laid that out well, Michaell. How do we lay out systems with a Human-Centric approach to building the architecture of systems?

*Michaell Magrutsche*: Systems are essential for order, like traffic lights preventing chaos. But they should be viewed as our collective artworks, constantly updated to serve humanity rather than pigeonhole us into roles that serve the system at our expense.

Redefining Financial Principles

*Michaell Magrutsche*: Money, though a remarkable invention, should not dictate survival. When money is equated with survival, it creates a perpetual state of lack. Instead, we should aim for a system that allows us to live comfortably and contentedly.

The Call to Update, Not Abandon

*Ed Watters*: Systems of yesterday are definitely not working for today.

*Michaell Magrutsche*: Rather than dismantling systems which can threaten those dependent on them, we should aim to update them. Human-Centric systems should emphasize clean water, food, and air for future generations.

Breaking Down Systematic Barriers

*Michaell Magrutsche*: To adjust systems successfully, we need term limits to prevent prolonged detachments among leaders from the people. Everyone, even those holding significant power, should interact consistently with humanity at large.

 Insightful Moments

This conversation highlights the importance of integrating Human-Centricity into all aspects of life. From understanding financial systems to redefining political structures, it emphasizes updating systems to work for humanity, not the other way around.

*Michaell Magrutsche*: We created the system. We must never submit to what we create. By thinking and acting in Human-Centric ways, your life will become fifty percent less stressful, and you’ll naturally gravitate towards more fulfilling choices.



As we progress through various systemic and societal challenges, Michaell Magrutsche’s perspective on Human-Centricity serves as a beacon of hope and direction. It calls for us to dance through life, appreciating our unique individualities while collaboratively enhancing our collective existence.

Call to Action

For more on implementing Human-Centricity in your life and interacting with Michaell, visit his website []( Embrace the dance of human potential, challenge systemic norms, and prioritize human connections.

Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, or educational, please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another great episode of the Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.

Stay human, and keep dancing.


This blog post draws from the rich, thought-provoking dialogue between Ed Watters and Michaell Magrutsche on the Dead America Podcast, illustrating the potent idea of Human-Centricity and the imperative need to update rather than abandon our systems to better serve humanity.

Michaell Magrutsche

[00:00:00] Ed Watters: Today we are with a returning guest, Michaell Magrutsche. He is a multidisciplinary artist, uh, strateg Thank God for editing.

[00:00:18] Michaell Magrutsche: Leave that in. Leave that in, Ed. It's beautiful, don't even explain what I am. People don't want, I don't want to know if it's an Oscar

[00:00:27] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:00:28] Michaell Magrutsche: winner or whatever. I want to just talk, you know? I want to just see what you and I can dance up.

[00:00:34] Ed Watters: It's always going to be magical with you Michaell, that's for sure. All right.

[00:00:44] To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand. The way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something right now.

[00:01:34] So Michael really needs no introduction folks. So let's hop in and find out what Human- Centricity really means. And Michael, why don't you jump in and tell us, what does Human- Centricity mean and how does it apply to us?

[00:01:55] Michaell Magrutsche: It's like a super word and I didn't invent it, but I found this was the most, the word that is most accurate to our human condition. Which is, we are all individuals, eight billion one of one, humans. Because that's even scientifically proven. And so the system even said every human has a different DNA, fingerprints, ears, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:02:24] But what nobody tells you is that everybody, plus, so there's eight billion unique, they're all unique. There's nobody the same as Ed or Michael, nobody, in the whole world. You can, I bet you, with you, whatever I have, you cannot show me that it's the same. And, but the thing that people misunderstand is, uh, we are, also have, live different life perspectives.

[00:02:52] So not only eight billion people, but eight billion different life perspectives. And we are a part of nature. And this is all what Human-Centricity encapsulates, we are, we are part of nature. Our species is a collective creator species. That means we create our own habitat. We are not like ants and elephants.

[00:03:20] They're just ants and elephants and do their function in the world. We have the ability to create our own habitat, which is systems. And this habitat should actually be our artworks. Because an anthill is not crooked. Uh, you know, in nature, you always see these beautiful aesthetics. But because we created previously, uh, the systems that, once we created money, which is the best ever invention after, after fire and the wheel, money is the greatest invention.

[00:03:57] Because if you, Ed, uh, sell chickens and I sell hammers, I'm an expert in hammering because of, you know, we're sick of using rocks to, to nail in something, how many, how many hammers can you have from me in exchange against the chicken? You know, I can, I can eat endless chicken, you know? But, but you can, so, so the people that actually do some, that's not a living, like a hammer, a tool, they're, they're, the thing,

[00:04:27] and so money allows people that actually create something, an artwork, a tool, or something, to exchange it. And money was always the representation of an individual, one of one's value, so that he could do what he's good at. Not what, what the, the system needs, but what he is good at. And he thought, Oh, I'm good in hammers and I love chicken and I, I raise chickens, you know? So that was the thing.

[00:04:57] But then we made, we got more and more in this lack. Because obviously, you know, everything was covered by gold and everything else. And all of a sudden we got into lack, and lack, and lack, and, and we got, we, we, more, we wanted more, more, more, more and better. And we also got, um, uh, uh, we got dizzy on our own power because we created the high rise and said, Oh my God, let's, let's do this all over the world, you know? Because we are so collaborative, we want to create. I mean, look at New York, Singapore, Google.

[00:05:39] I mean, it wasn't like Steve Jobs said, I'm gonna come make now, uh, Google. No, he didn't even know if he even succeeded. But we are so collaborative, we love to work together. And because we learning in the creation about our oneness and at the same time, how we fit into the whole. And that's magic. And we all think, but when, when it becomes like, Ed, you are, you are a chicken guy and now you make much more money if you're a banker

[00:06:13] and you don't want to be a banker, so you just say, Okay, I can do it. I can just make the money. And sooner or later, you are not you. You're not contributing with your essence. And now what happens is the generalization of people that is not anymore one of one human. It's not human centric anymore, but it's system relevant.

[00:06:37] And this is, this is the opposite. And the system relevant says, we need people that make hammers. We don't need chickens right now, you know? We can do our own chicken. We have another guy that does artificial foods. So we, we, we, we just need hammers. So you're going to do hammers and, uh, and everybody does hammers.

[00:06:58] So we, even the people that did chicken, do hammers. So, because it's never enough, because, because it's never enough. It's never, um, one of these, these things of, of, of the monetary skill, which isn't just a representation of you, but it's the monetary skill systemically. We make that systemic with the banking, and with the fiat currency, we make that thing. And I'm not a specialist in every, as you know, Ed, I have zero education.

[00:07:30] I've eight years of school, two years I had to repeat. I'm extremely neurodiverse. I wrote six books, I need the computer to read them to me because I lose the context. So I'm, I know nothing. So I'm not an expert and I'm not, not here to teach anybody, but to exchange and, uh, life perspective with you because my one on one life perspective.

[00:07:57] And when I dance with you, this opens both our life perspective, and then we get a feedback of, Oh my God. My impact, yeah. I'm coming to your show, you, you know, it's your impact and my impact on your show because I'm here the second time. So it works. And that dance of human, of that human potential to see that human, how powerful this dance is.

[00:08:23] It's not like, Hey, I'm the expert. I'm the author, I am this and this. No, it's a dance. It's a dance. And in this dance, I see you as, right? And it makes it feel good. It doesn't make it stressy, there's no stress. It's just, it's just a dance. And, and, and what it is, is, especially, it's fulfilling. Because fulfilling is the feedback loop that you, the one of one, are on your right path.

[00:08:51] Because for me, something else is fulfilling than for you. And when two people come together, synergistically, the one and one, then you get the feedback loop, you guys are on the right track. No matter what you talk. If, if we would talk about boobs, it doesn't matter. Whatever we talk, it's just, or dogs, or whatever, it doesn't matter.

[00:09:14] Especially if it fulfills us and we say, Oh my God, I didn't think about dogs that do this and whatever. So, that's the Human-Centricity. It's, it's meaning that we're everything and we're all different. And then we go into system relevant where we systemize, where we look at patterns like, you know, we need food. So who is good for food?

[00:09:39] And then we try to make that food, you know, in the thing. But there is, the lack drives us to go in the wrong direction because it is about, we make three times as much food as we actually use to humanity. 25, 000 people a day die of hunger [00:10:00] in this world, and we almost throw two thirds of food away. And the food that we actually throw away is not always good food. And it's just the quantity, because it's never enough, always more.

[00:10:14] And, and, uh, and it is so sad. And why I'm so for Human-Centricity is because I'm so sad that people hide behind systems, even. When you say, So introduce yourself. Oh, I'm a, I'm a doctor, I'm this, I'm, and when they don't, our system relevant, when they're not system relevant, when they're not a CEO, they say, I just got through cancer,

[00:10:40] I just got the, like, it becomes their image. Who are you? If you have cancer, that's bad. That's, that's not happy, but, but you are not cancer. You are not a CEO. Uh, I had yesterday, a, a, a talk, uh, you know, big discussion. And this, the, the, the host was a NASA, NASA specialist, right? And that was the big promotion, was the, the NASA specialist comes on the thing.

[00:11:09] And you know what? We have not talked about NASA at all. Because that was just to get the attention. But, but people, but people just, not a single word. We were just, not nothing about the system or anything. It was a very talk about Human-Centricity and everything. But you know, that's how, how it works.

[00:11:30] Ed Watters: You laid that out well, Michaell. And you know, the deeper we dig into the systems, there's an architecture to the system. So if we really dive into the architecture of these systems, we can actually lay out some pretty Human-Centric systems that we don't necessarily think about when we're laying out simple systems of government or, you know, any type of system.

[00:12:02] We, we negate from putting Human-Centric into it because of what you stated earlier, the cash involvement. We always strive for the cash instead of the interaction, the communication skill. This is what really builds America and the world is us being able to sit here and talk in an open manner and discuss ideas and lay them out and then others come in and enjoy

[00:12:37] what we lay out, it's magical and nothing beats it. That's why podcasting is really taking off and trending in ways that some of us thought would never have occurred. So getting back into building these systems, the architecture of systems, how do we lay systems out with a Human-Centric approach to building the architecture of systems?

[00:13:13] Michaell Magrutsche: Okay. I, a system is essential and we need systems to have order because if you, if there's no red light and green light, everybody would crash into each other, you know? So, uh, we need to have order where we all agree upon, this is the order. And also systems are not supposed to be something dirty and not just a money scheme. System are a collective artwork of us.

[00:13:42] Like, like, remember the churches, you have the beautiful churches and what, uh, and artworks. And what is the one, one, what is the one thing that they destroy in wars? Which is total system relevant, has nothing to do with human. War is a total, it's a function, a system function. When the system was so exploited by some people that it can't do it anymore.

[00:14:06] And now he has to destroy to, to hide the evidence and also to, to, to, to get everybody's attention off. But on the level of humans, it's all humans. I am forced to pay taxes like you are. If you don't pay your taxes, you'll get punished. But that money gets taken, gets, and everybody makes money on it, to, to go over and kill other humans.

[00:14:35] That, so you're forced. If I say, you know, I love to pay taxes and I see the necessity of them. I'm not saying no taxes. Yes, taxes are good. But I don't want to pay a penny to kill another person that I don't even know. Look, if you and I have a fight and we fight it out, it's a different story. But I don't even know that person because such and such somebody called them the Jews,

[00:14:59] the Palestinians, the Ukrainians, the Russians, that's a system relevant definition. Because then I would say, Oh, according to systems, white are the powerful. They're always the good ones. No, there's good white. There's good black, there's everybody. You, when, the moment we generalize, we weaken. We castrate and neuter every human the moment we say, Those are the white guys, those are the black guys, those are the Ukrainians, those are these, that's, that's system relevant segregation.

[00:15:37] Every time we generalize human, all women are this, all men are this, you know? All people in prison are bad. In prison, most neurodiverse people are in prison, you know? So, because they can't be system relevant, you know? Why are artists worldwide in the, in, uh, so poor? Because they can't work an eight to five job.

[00:16:00] I could hardly ever work an eight to five job. I was never a system relevant, never, ever was. I was system relevant, yeah, when I was an arts commissioner, you know, of Newport Beach. But I also worked with Robert Evans who did The Godfather, I was never fulfilled. I'm more fulfilled now with you than I was ever there because I had the system relevant, Oh, he's working with this.

[00:16:23] And I loved Robert. That was a relationship like, like with you, you know, it's a good relationship. But the job of being, after a week, I freaked out and said, Oh my God, what is, I'm losing this. Because I was the superstar all of a sudden and my friends, Oh, you're working with, oh, you're the arts commissioner,

[00:16:41] oh, you're this, I was the superstar. But it, it, it, it wasn't fulfilling, it wasn't what he promises. And this is what, what I also say about Human-Centric that you need to understand, this is unnatural. The difference between Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and all these top people versus the normal, is unnatural. It's not natural.

[00:17:03] It segregates you from humanity and you get, and you don't know anymore what's going on and you just take what people tell you. Your advisors, they're all yay sayers, say it. And, and you just do it once you ask the top. I know nothing changed when I was a politician, nothing changed for me. Actually, it was a big disappointment.

[00:17:24] It was a disappointment because I expected it, the, I expected to be the politician is the image that you see on TV and in media. And it isn't, you know? You don't have a freedom to help people. You don't have the freedom, you don't. People think, Oh, I'm a thing, I can take care of all the people. No, you can't.

[00:17:47] The moment you are in that high position, you can't. You're more, we are freer, you and I are freer than when you are on top. On top, all eyes on you. You cannot move left or right. You cannot even let a fart. I mean, literally it's going down to the, you cannot do anything. When you cough, you're embarrassed.

[00:18:11] When you, when you stutter in a speech, you're embarrassed. It's, it's just, it's horrible. It's horrible, it's really horrible. That's why you see so many top people freak out. The leaders, you know, the leaders, they freak out. They, they, you know, people off themselves. That, you know, uh, Tony Bourdain, you know, they off themselves.

[00:18:34] And Tony was very Human-Centric, right? He was very, a guy's guy, right? As he was just like a cook, blah, blah, blah, blah. And when he got into that, he all of a sudden lost. He hoped he will really find himself when he's on top. And what he did, he didn't. He got worse, he lost himself further. And that's why when you see people become famous, they become infamous.

[00:18:58] They become soon infamous. And also, even look at, I'm just saying, I give you just samples. I'm not saying those are absolutes. But Taylor Swift, she's the biggest, greatest thing, which is magic. You know, it's just happened and we don't know how it happens. And now the people are already sawing on her. They build you up and pull you down.

[00:19:19] Because, because humanity is not happy. Humanity is not happy with one that is so absolute high. Elon Musk, all this, all rich. You know, it's not, it's not bad to be rich, it's not bad to be a leader, it's not bad to be, that you have your, you know, you have five kids and you have a big house. It's all, and it is so exponentially bigger

[00:19:48] and nobody else has it. That's wrong. I'm also not against, you know, not having a property or anything. No, I'm not a communist at all. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm non political at [00:20:00] all. But, but what I'm saying is, we, collectively, because of the wrong financial principles, you know, the financial principles that are outdated, that only say it needs to be more.

[00:20:13] So if you and I make ten grand today, not enough tomorrow, you know? So we can't even enjoy the ten grand that we make right now. Yeah. We're making ten grand right now, we can't even enjoy it because we have to save them. And next week, because it's never enough. So we have to make more. And when that happens, then you can't, then it's a collective.

[00:20:35] We all are, are pushed in a corner. Because you, we need, as human, and Human- Centricity needs sleep, right? It, we need sleep, we need to digest. When, when, when I'm a, a, a phone answerer in a, in a company and I have forty, uh, call, well, twenty calls, I need to rest and look out the window at a tree or something to just find myself. To digest what I ingested.

[00:21:07] And, and our world, you know, the system relevant world, got to do this. Come on, Ant, let's go. Not, not enough, Ant. Come on, get it, go, go, go, go. And you can never digest what you experienced. And that's the sad thing, that's, that's, that's the sad thing. And we cannot, because as long as financial principles are only do an imbalance, and the human, you know, nature and humanity can only be effective when balanced.

[00:21:37] The highest form in, the highest power in nature is balance. That's why nature never gets out of balance. Even if there's an earthquake or a flood, it, it resets. It's never so big that, that, you know, uh, that it's, it's over, you know? But in systems, you don't have that. You can do artificial rises like Elon Musk, you can artificial

[00:21:58] collapses, you can take over countries, you can do all these kinds of things, which is our metaverse. You know, them systems is our playroom. It's our game, which is okay. But we, if we are losing the awareness, we are going to be pushed more and more in the, in the, in the corner. Everyone, there's no excuse.

[00:22:18] See, people think, Oh, I've, I've ten billion. Ed, what's this guy talking about? I have ten billion dollars. What should happen, you know? No, when the world feels like shit, you do it too. And when, when we cannot do it, they cannot do it. You can be on an island in Hawaii with bunkers and everything and the world is distraught.

[00:22:40] And even if you are safe, that you're not hot, you feel it. You feel the connection. We are all in this damn boat together, if we like it or not. So we got to learn to dance with each other and open our perspective. Not saying I'm right or you're wrong, it's never about right and wrong. It's about open perspectives, you know?

[00:23:00] I mean, could, could today a mass murderer, yeah, could, could today a mass murderer come and say, I want to express what I feel. Well, well, well, I think, no, you're in prison and that's it. Uh, if then, you know, anything you say, uh, is, is never, so the equality, you know, it's systemically equality. But it's so inequal, equal, you know, equality is by nature.

[00:23:28] I never would say the word equality. Equality doesn't mean anything because we are by nature equal. So we need to make systems more Human-Centric and say, It doesn't really matter what, we get the best man for whatever that is. And that's not white, it's not defined. We get the best man or woman, we get the best human.

[00:23:48] That's what, see, I'm, I'm, I just caught myself getting in that, you know? It's the best human for that job. And if a soldier is the best woman, is a woman, then it's a woman, I don't care. If the best soldier is gay, I don't care. If the best soldier is the whatever, if the best whatever, scientist is, whatever, it's the human.

[00:24:13] And that's, that, I hope I give you some feeling of why human centricities are our only way out because it's the highest relevance. Not spirituality, not, uh, uh, uh, religion, not, Oh, I'm a Republican, Democrat. No, no, no, no. Don't hide behind those things. We, the most, we are human, that's, that's the highest form. Because spiritual, we, we are spiritual anyway after, after we die.

[00:24:40] So if you want to explore spirituality, explore it once you're dead. I mean, it doesn't matter you can, you can explore it here too. But don't hide behind it, don't hide behind the religion. Don't, enjoy the social interaction that happens in religions. It's so beautiful, you know? And not worrying, what is the regimen?

[00:25:00] What is the rules? What is the regulation? That is secondary. That generalizes us versus the social interaction. That's why they kill, they destroy, uh, worships and art, because that's the most Human-Centric system.

[00:25:18] Ed Watters: That's huge, you know, how you laid that out. And systems try to define. And sometimes humans have no definition, because they're impulsive. So if you try to label impulse, it does not work. And that's why we feel these depressions, anxieties, hostilities towards everyone. Systems define us, instead of letting the person define themselves. Huge.

[00:25:54] Michaell Magrutsche: And, and let us define the system. Also, the, you know, I think what you said, uh, is, let, let us define the system. Let, update, let us update, systems are not updated. The problem is system would be okay. They were good when they built them, but they got updated because it's never enough. So they had money issues too. And everybody said money equals survival. That's why it's so important to fix the financial principles to value.

[00:26:24] Give a value, uh, value for, uh, it's enough. And, and, and we can, we need to update the systems, just what they do. Because an iPhone, if an iPhone isn't updated, you know, updates every day. So, half the system also, there's one key problem with system to update them, the systems need to say, Not generalize humans.

[00:26:49] So, get rid of all the, you know, race, sexuality, gender, get rid of that. You're human. Yes, if you need to know if it's specifically, let's say, in, in, uh, woman, uh, that, about, uh, medical things. And man, what the difference is, obviously you want to, what, we want to mark it there. But in general, we need to talk about, we need to look instead of generalizing that, that humans have to adapt to systems.

[00:27:19] Let's, we have created system to serve us. So if systems can serve us, the only way is by not seeing us as a species. That is, that's the human species, there's, there's these subspecies, and they need food, air, and water, and what, and they love sex, and they love love, and they like to be relevant. No, we are that, yeah, that, it's not wrong, that's not wrong, but we are more than that. We are a species that is all one of one, and that have different races, and different sexes, and they don't have to be defined. You, the science can define them if they want to do a research. But not in general, should never be defined. It's a human.

[00:28:08] Ed Watters: Yeah. Systems, systems of yesterday are definitely not working for today. And, and that's a big, big thing, exactly. You need to define the systems and improve and update just like you do any software, that's so true. You know, and another thing you, you talked about,

[00:28:31] Michaell Magrutsche: And we all had a job.

[00:28:34] Ed Watters: Yeah. You talked about those individuals that do accelerate to the top and they excel in places and in ways that some of us will never achieve. It, it's, it's kind of like the crab in the bucket syndrome, or better yet, Doug Garland, Dr. Doug Garland, uh, people go check out the episode with him that I had, he talks about the tall poppy syndrome. And this is when the poppy grows above all the other poppies, they want to cut it down

[00:29:17] so every poppy's the same. And that is that mentality that we get. We have to have everybody the same, but we crave tall poppies or individuals that rise to the top, to the top so we can cut them down. This is one of those system structures that needs to be changed. And everybody, like you stated earlier, needs to be recognized for their abilities that they possess.

[00:29:55] Not what you tell them, go build the hammer. [00:30:00] No. I don't want to build a hammer, it doesn't fit who I am. And if we don't allow them to explore themselves and identify and get to become better at what they enjoy, they'll never be happy in life. And that's where we are as a world. We're not happy where we are, we want to be someplace else. We can create these systems and that's what you are doing, Michaell, is you're putting a spotlight on these systems needing to be changed and put more focus on the Human- Centric nature of systems. Awesome, I really enjoy that.

[00:30:52] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah. They are artworks and they're supposed to be artworks, but nothing can change as long as we see money as survival. When money becomes survival, and there's a lack of money, how the hell should that happen? How, how, when you, the moment you make money, you are in lack? So even they say to a millionaire, Do a debt that you pay less taxes.

[00:31:16] So it defeats the whole purpose of the financial systems. You know, there is a bigger, bigger, faster, and cheaper. That is not, that is, what a stupid goal. Why not having the price that you can live off, and it's enough. Why do you need to make it cheaper? Yes, obviously, if you create more, it's automatic. Yeah. It's just insane.

[00:31:38] It doesn't work, it does not work. And that's the, the, the same as, it can never work. It can never work. Humans can never work in a, a, a, a climate that is saying, Whatever you do, it's never enough. Whatever you do, it's never enough. Whatever you do, it's never enough and you need to do better. You need to get the coaching,

[00:31:58] you need to get everything. And they can even, no system can promise you. I mean, the system cannot even promise you, oh, you get retirement. Because they just changed the, the system can change everything, generally. If you generalize, you can change. If every human was the same, system would be perfect. They can do whatever they want.

[00:32:18] But every human isn't the same. And, and, and, and this is what people forget, we created the system. There's no, we are not the gods of nature. We are not the gods of saying, Oh, Ed, let's have it rain tomorrow. No, but we are the gods of every man made system. So when I say, Oh, you need to go into war, are you freaking insane?

[00:32:42] You're killing people so we, we, we can contain the system, you know? It's horrible, you know? I mean, do you want America, is America not, just, I'm talking about, just a minute, is America not enough, worth enough that we all collaborative update this system and make it what it's supposed to be, just a function. If the function is to help

[00:33:10] this person, then, then, yeah, then have this, this person, but say it, don't say, Oh, we only do that. Or we do in general, we do and then you help one person and say, Oh, I did my job. And then be aware, politics and, and politics, I always, I cannot believe this, politics and media are codependent. They're in their own metaverse.

[00:33:35] They, and the reason is why they're so effective is because when somebody that believes what they say, they are effective. When I am only with those people, you know, being the leader, being with the twenty people that, that, that only talk to me, I believe what they tell me. And when, when media and politics hand each other topics to rule, to, to, to, to, to be a politician, then,

[00:34:08] they only talk to media. So all they think, Oh, my God, this happened there. They never see the good stuff. And think about this, and this is what I want your listeners to really get, fifteen years ago, they started with that media, uh, codependency. Media and, and, and, and really codependency where it's, nothing goes out of politics that isn't covered by the media and media and vice versa.

[00:34:32] fifteen years ago, when you and I were, we're, we're alive that time. If we believed everything that media said, how long do you think would the world be gone? You know, world, world goes under, pollution, this, I mean, one after, the world keeps going on. And that's why podcasters are good because they are not just saying what's, what's important, what, what the people are having, giving attention to.

[00:35:04] But it, it, it allows us to exchange, uh, exchange and dance and, and show how powerful regular thing is. Not where I say, No. Ed, you're wrong. No, no, no. We fighting about a system that's not even about human. That's about, you know, if we should get social security or not, you know? When, when have you last time heard, uh, saying the word human

[00:35:30] ever in politics? It's just American people, it's a system construct. It's the American people. They want this, all of them. It's all manipulation. It's not like, Oh, that's a human trait that's, you know, humans don't like to be controlled. Humans don't like to be pushed in the corner, humans don't like to be never enough.

[00:35:51] Humans don't like to be, you know, they want to be system relevant because they cannot experience their own enoughness, which allows the podcast. It allows us to, right? That's a superpower of podcasting. And I always tell Alex, I say, This, this is, you know, and I'm so happy for him to, to, to nurture us, you know, in that, you know? But he's not the god,

[00:36:14] he's one of us. And he never makes himself the god, he's one of us. He says, I'm contributing with this, you contribute with that, you know? I cannot, I'm so nervous. I can do a thirty second podcast and it takes me two hours here. And, uh, but, uh, but, but you can. And so that's why I went to 350 different, in the last two years

[00:36:35] all over the world. And they, and have not one single pushback. Have not one single, Oh, Michaell, that's bullshit. Because it's human and that's the highest truth. So if I come and say, you know, Buddha said this and this, that's a system. It's a generalization, it's good. I'm not saying religion isn't good, but it's a generalization of humans.

[00:37:01] You know, and that doesn't mean you shouldn't pray and whatever you want to do. Whatever resonates, whatever fulfills you, not what you have to do, the generalization. I want to be a good Buddhist, I want to be a good Christian, I want to be a good Muslim. Ah, that's generalizing. But, but you, you cut yourself already.

[00:37:19] If I say, you know, who I, I'm a Christian, you know, I'm a Muslim, what the, what does that mean? That's a generalization of a belief or, and even if it's wise and it's truth. But it's a generalization because who feels love the same? We don't, I don't know what you feel in love. I don't know how you feel God, your relationship to God.

[00:37:46] And I love these people that always say, You know what? You know, I am a Christian, I'm a CEO and we take care of everything. Are you a part of nature? No, I am in charge of nature, you know? No, you're part of it. No, no. So how can you say you love God? You can't, if you're not seeing even the basic thing that you are a part of nature. If you find God, that's one way to find it, realize I'm a part of nature. I'm not in charge of nature. I can exploit it, but I'm not in charge. And we know there were dinosaurs, too, and nature keeps going on. So whatever we, we try to do, it's, it's going on. We are not so great.

[00:38:34] Ed Watters: Yeah. Humans, humans, we tend to collapse ourselves in a lot of ways because we, we like to be defined. And, you know, with the religion, that is a belief system. What I believe, I don't expect anybody else to believe because they're not in my thought process and they can't understand how I got to the place I am. They'll never be able to unless they've walked in my shoes all of those years before.

[00:39:11] Michaell Magrutsche: But they still don't, Ed, they still don't. If I walk exactly, if, why does your family always say, We have, uh, we have perspectives, we have different perspectives, eight billion perspectives. Just look at your family. Everybody has this different life perspective, everybody in your family. And you guys grew up together? Fought, did everything, and everybody looks at life differently, you know? And that's why I'm saying, You, you, I cannot know that you are a God fearing or a God loving person. And I couldn't even, even that, if you are a God fearing person, I couldn't sense it in me how you feel.

[00:39:53] You understand? It's like, we know, we should know what other people like. We, I was, I was [00:40:00] with my, uh, with my ex wife, I was together for two years, I wouldn't know and we were really close. We were living together and everything. I couldn't say what wedding ring I would buy her, she had to select it. You know, I proposed and then said, you know, Select it. Because, and, and people and, and couples they're together, right?

[00:40:21] Like, like you, you're, you're forty years together with somebody and they say, I know there's three suits. I know which one you like. If you don't like the, if you don't know that this guy, there's a blue one, a red one, and a green one, and you know the guy only likes blue, that you don't know. Because, and I ask people, because in my, my research I asked the people

[00:40:43] and they say, Yeah, I like this, but I would choose that one. I would choose this one. And even in cases where she knows the blue he likes, he says, No, I think this red, I like this red, it's special. I like this red. And we don't know, we need to know ourselves. That's the only, to be an essence, to find something.

[00:41:08] Yeah, we need to be only finding us. Then we give, the giving is not, I have to sacrifice and deny myself to give to you. The reason why we are dancing here is because you and I dance, it's not to help you. I want to help you. I help you by being me, knowing me in this dance. Not by, right? Not, not by, uh, you know, I, I gotta help, uh, Ed was asking me and he begged me to help him.

[00:41:42] First of all, you didn't. But, but even if you want, and I need to, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. I'm, I'm, I'm not here to save you or help you, nobody can save anyone. Because people that, that have diseases, eighty percent can, can get saved and twenty percent choose not to be saved. It's, it's, it's, you can't control humans. They're all one of one. The best you can is understand, dancing with them to open your own perspective, to see that we are all interconnected. That's the only thing.

[00:42:18] Ed Watters: That's right. You know, and, and that is huge. If we actually center ourselves when we lay out the systems, put that architecture together for these systems, that's what we need to understand, the things that all of us enjoy. You know, we all need these basic things, water, food, a safe place, you know, these things that make us feel comfort. This is what we really truly seek, but yet because of the systems, we get confused and we start barking up the wrong trees. The, we, we really need to,

[00:43:03] Michaell Magrutsche: We are all in this together though.

[00:43:04] Ed Watters: That's right. We need to find ourself like you just said, Michaell. It's huge.

[00:43:10] Michaell Magrutsche: It's, it's, we always say update. Because the people, when we say we want to change system or fix system, then we threaten other humans that are dependent on this system. And then it's human against human. Yeah. So update the system. And I don't want to say too much, for example, climate change. Because everybody talks about climate change, okay? Everybody agrees there was an ice age, right? That, before even humanity. Everybody knows that the world is changing, and I'm not pro or against, I just want to do the thing. Why are we, and I have just a question about climate change, why are we not guaranteed for our next generations? Because we are only here a short time, to have clean water, clean food, and clean air.

[00:43:55] Because even if we just go by that responsibility, you know, we have rights, but we have a responsibility. Just clean water, clean food, clean air, don't you think? Which is a Human-Centric thing, right? That's Human-Centric because we are responsible for others that come here and want to visit too and want to experience physicalness.

[00:44:18] And if we just do this, do you think that had a thing on climate, that would have an effect on climate? Of course. You know, we do, and you see that humans are all in, in this together. How much effort did we spend, um, the world, the Western world at least, about recycling plastic? We recycle plastic, and everybody was part of it.

[00:44:42] Because we want to have clean air, clean food, clean, and we want to protect our environment, right? We, we know that this is where we grow. In the old days, we didn't care. We, we dumped whatever we just got, you know, the time, right? Who cares? You know, hey, oil change, and there's a car and it needs an oil change, just go out on the field and get the throttle.

[00:45:04] And we weren't conscious. But now we, you know, nine percent only can be recycled of plastic in the world. So, and do you know what they did with the rest of them? Just put it on the, on the trash, is again in the thing. And, and you know what they do? It's, it's just, it's just insane. It's, it's all about using Human-Centricity, uh, you know, our love to, for each other and, and, and community.

[00:45:33] And saying, Okay, segregate the plastic and a lot of systems make money of it. And that's why we need to say we need to put levers in. For example, uh, uh, that, that you cannot be, term limits, absolute term limits. We have to learn to trust humanity. And that's why it's term limits, not just, Oh, he's, the longer somebody's in a leadership position, the worst he is, the worst off he is.

[00:46:00] He's segregated from the people. The longer you are in the, and you see that in the Senate and everything, the longer you're in this thing, you're just like, and you're, and you're just, no. Term limits, uh, and, and, and, and even, even if, even age, age gate, you cannot be over eighty, you cannot be anything. You know, that's just, uh, you can still be a wise man.

[00:46:25] But you can be a leader because you need to be in touch with, with all humans, not just with the topic. And this is the problem with, with politics. And I think they're not talking to normal people, they're talking to media and politics. It's just their, their buddy. It's like the sports club, you know? This is a very good talk for anybody that has the, uh, has the feeling of, I want to know Human-Centricity. I think it's the superpower. People don't even want to be themselves anymore.

[00:46:59] Ed Watters: Yes. You know, it's one of the talks that really need to be elevated and pushed to the top. And a lot of your modern algorithms are pushing us aside because, you know, they see that we are kind of confronting the system base that is status quo.

[00:47:25] And if we don't challenge those things with our thoughts and our opinions, then nothing will ever change. And we'll continue down this path of hostility, violence, people not being satisfied in their jobs, their homes, their lives. And that's why it's so important, Michaell, for you to be out there on 300, 500, 10, 000 podcasts. You know, your, your specialty might not be the editing and putting it all together, but you definitely have a passion and a concern that makes you one of the top podcasters.

[00:48:10] So when I, when I podcast, it's all about the conversation. And the more I do this, the better I get. And that just emulates and people absorb that. And that's why I try to push myself even on days when I don't feel good and I don't want to do it, I do it anyway. And I push myself because I know how important it is for humanity, not just myself.

[00:48:45] We are broken and conversation is the only thing that's going to bring that synergy back. Thank you for what you're doing, Michaell. You know, it's very important. I know our time is short here, do you have a call to action or a piece of wisdom that you would like to share with our listeners?

[00:49:07] Michaell Magrutsche: If you segregate in your mind, you're perspective in the Human-Centricity and what is system relevant. And don't make it systems bad, uh, systems need to just, it's our artwork, they need to be updated. But if you, if you just view and think, so, you know, Oh my God, I feel so bad. Why do I feel bad? I feel bad, oh, because somebody got promoted before me. That is system relevant, that's nothing to do with anything. Uh, you know, your kid is healthy, you're seeing his thing. That is important.

[00:49:38] And Human-Centricity's always first because we created all systems. We can never submit to something we created. That's like, I'm an artist. I create a doll and then ask him, Is Ed a good person or should I talk to Ed or not? That's bullshit, you know? We cannot submit to something we created. It, it, it, it isn't.

[00:49:59] [00:50:00] So if you just segregate it, I guarantee you that once you get it, your life is fifty percent easier. It's stress free. It becomes, from one day, fifty percent less stress because you, you, you, your choice is going to be Human-Centric. And in Human-Centricity, you always win. System relevance, even if you win, you lose, all lose. So that's the wisdom. That's not much wisdom and I'm not, you know, I'm not the king. I never want to be the super leader, I want to just be dancing with people. I prefer dancing to leading.

[00:50:37] Ed Watters: Yeah. Well, you know, if people understood that more, when they get offered that kingship, they should just deny it and say, No, I'd rather dance. And that's so, so huge when we can just turn off the power, it's a wonderful feeling. Michaell, it's always a pleasure to talk to you and you're, you're wise beyond years and you think about things. That's why I enjoy having you on the show and you're always welcome back. How can people get ahold of you and dance with you?

[00:51:19] Michaell Magrutsche: Michaell with two L's Also say, very simple, Human-Centric, just one thing. You go there, click, whatever you feel, it, whatever resonates with you, and contact me or, or hire me, or whatever you want. It's, uh, I'm, you know, and, and, and I have a perspective, I have a luck that, my luck was that till fifty, I hit the wall.

[00:51:46] I, I tried to systemically hit the wall and I was also up on systems and not, and I hit the wall. And, uh, now I, I, I enjoy every minute of my existence. I really, and if something hurts, okay, if something hurts you, lean into the hurt or whatever. But, um, I have a, I have a, uh, I have a big thing to, even though today,

[00:52:08] I've never spoken in that way because it's you. See, this is, this is, I just, the mastermind of you and I just comes in and then I just speak. I'm a loudspeaker basically. I'm not the, I never would say I have the right for all my knowledge and wisdom. No. It's everybody's, it's everybody's, it's human. If I would be in a system and would create a motor, I want all the rights for that,

[00:52:34] right? That's the system relevant thing, it's purely, it has nothing to do with humans. I create a new, a new wear of clothes or a new wear of shoes, yeah, then I get maximum money. But I'm in the business of, of getting people to be more themselves than they ever can imagine and to realize and to feedback to them. Because together when I have seen so many miracles, uh, because the people all of a sudden say, Oh, yeah.

[00:53:05] Oh, I looked, I didn't, I didn't even think that I have to pay taxes to pay war to kill somebody else. I've never thought about this. You know, how many people told me I'm forced to pay taxes that other humans are going to be killed. And on the, on the way to the killing, it's not even, I'm going to give that person the money.

[00:53:25] No. On the way, everybody makes money. On the way it makes money. And then it's like, you know, charity, some charities, you know, you give a dollar and one cents gets to the charity. So even if the war was a good thing, which it isn't, they don't get the money. But you are forced to pay it. So we're forced to pay this, this, this, this, this top people. We need, we need to say, No, we're not. And it's awareness, there's nothing to do. People always are so afraid, oh, what do I have to do? Nothing, just be aware. Change happens automatically.

[00:54:03] Ed Watters: That's right. You know, change happens when you just act. It just comes in and it happens. Sometimes we don't even realize it's changed until Oh, wow, that's changed. Uh, you know, it's already happened and that's the beauty of it. So Michaell, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. I want to say thank you so much for sharing your time with us here on the Dead America Podcast today.

[00:54:31] Michaell Magrutsche: You're welcome, anytime. You know, Ed, you and I know each other. So that's, once we know each other, we dance.

[00:54:43] Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast, enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, please share, like, subscribe and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.