Michaell Magrutsche The Power of Art and Creativity

Michaell Magrutsche

[00:00:00] Michaell Magrutsche: I'm just saying, um, explaining you what I did, how I did it, and, and, and, and explain it, verbalize it to you, that, that you understand it so you get a deep understanding of, of creation. Uh, and especially creation after the fact because I think you can't really create, that would be also limitation if you create with, with the knowledge, so with the knowledge that I told you about this. If you would now create something yourself, wouldn't be a hundred percent you because it would be a copy of my initial thing. And that's always weaker. That's always, you know, that's always the thing. But once you, the more you understand what are, so for example, you need contrast always because a, a symphony is harmony and dissonance in balance. So balance is the, is the, so if it's only harmony, it's boring. If it's only dissonance, it's noise, right? So, so those things everybody knows, but people don't remember it when they create. So you need to have those two poles.

[00:01:16] Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand, the way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something right now.

[00:02:08] Today we're with Michaell Magrutsche. Michaell is an author, he is an artist, and he's a great podcaster. Michaell, could you please introduce yourself and let people know just a little bit about you, please?

[00:02:22] Michaell Magrutsche: Hi Ed, thank you for having me. Um, my name is Michaell Magrutsche, I'm an artist since I'm six years old and I wasn't even aware of the power of art at all it, uh, till like 30, 35. And then I realized that my whole life was about art. And my, I was a sick child and then went to school and couldn't understand what they did, so I could never fit into a system. And I found out like with 35, that literally, because officially you cannot call yourself an artist until society assists them, or religion, or anybody calls you an artist.

[00:03:03] And that's why like a lot of artists, when you talk to them now, they feel like uncomfortable calling themselves artists. But they are artists. And I saw, saw my, my, my life and uh, I saw, yeah, I'm an artist. I decided that, you know, uh, I don't care what people say. And um, yeah, I did, I tinkered around, you know, humans are tinkerers, I tinkered around and, you know, and I found with, I finally said, you know what? Art always made me feel human.

[00:03:36] It made me, even though I couldn't fit in the systems, not that I was a rebel or anything, I just couldn't fit into it. But I, I felt like art made me always feel inclusive. It felt, um, there wasn't, there was no difference if you're gender or anything. There wasn't like, you know, in sports, Hey, you, you, you're not cutting it, so let's, let's get out or, or do another sport.

[00:04:02] And in art, it was just, and you know, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, when you create a play, for example, the lead is not everything. It's the whole piece, you know? Uh, because the lead alone can do anything. So this inclusiveness, this camaraderie, this, you know, we gotta create something. We have a, we have a target and we gotta fix it,

[00:04:24] you know? We gotta make it no matter what. If people get sick or not, we gonna have a performance or we gonna paint that painting. Or even if the painting has to be done tomorrow, but we, we work all night, we get that painting done, you know, we get that music done, whatever. And, and it's harmonious, it's not stressy.

[00:04:45] So when you need to achieve something in a system, it's always stressy. Oh, time runs out, uh, you know, too expensive, all this stuff. So, I really found this is such a sample for humanity. You know, for our inherent, how we are, like a tribe. You're helping each other out and you are very much on the same inclusiveness, you know? Because we can do exponentially more together

[00:05:13] as a team, not as single people, you know? And I think, uh, therein is the power. And when, like, in, you know, three, four years ago, I couldn't handle this, this constant fact that, that just hit me and said, you know, oh, 95% or 97% of artists, uh, on the poverty line. And they said, how the hell can that be? Everything we created in this world from Shanghai to New York,

[00:05:41] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:05:42] Michaell Magrutsche: to Apple, to the war in Ukraine. Everything is a creation.

[00:05:46] Ed Watters: Powerful right there. Yes.

[00:05:47] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I said, how can the system not, uh, honor, you know, artists or, and, and, but, and they are, artists cannot honor themselves either. Because I found, first I wanted to blame the system for it, but I said, artists, when they're in the position to, define themselves.

[00:06:09] So they, you know, they, in the old times, the, the guy that could, could draw, painted the cave paintings. Then came, uh, you know, Mozart then and, and you know, he, he, he put the,

[00:06:20] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:06:20] Michaell Magrutsche: played the fiddle. Oh, he played for the, he played for the, the, the Duke and the Duchess. And they say, Hey, stay in my, stay in my, one of my 500 rooms and uh, my kitchen's gonna feed you some food and at night you play for me.

[00:06:35] And then Michelangelo painting the Sistine chapel as a employee of the church, so it's always was up to the system to define the value of what they wanna pay. Because really, as you know, like this talk, you can put a monetarial value on this talk, you know. So, so, so it's much valuable, but we pretend, oh, we gotta, yeah, we've gotta put a value on it.

[00:07:01] And that's, and that's I think the problem with all, with podcasting, with coaching, with artists, with all the things that are not tangible, you know. Because, you know, plumber says, you ask a plumber, I said, why do I pay $5,000? The plumber said, I'm gonna put a new uh, bathtub in, I put this in, I put this, I'm laying the pipes. And he knows and that's my, my, my rate.

[00:07:25] An artist, you ask an artist why you paying $5,000? He, you, you hear the, the weirdest stories because it's an, it's over the generations ingrained in us that art is a hobby, that art, artists are starving. And so I wanna wake up people and that's why I did only a, a, a 20, 30 second broadcast, because I want you to feel rich and abundant.

[00:07:53] Then you will attract it and they will not stutter around when somebody says, Hey, why do, I'm paying that for you? Because, because at practice, to be with the, from the unconscious into the conscious, I'm bringing something in. Like you bring in the podcast, you create something. So

[00:08:13] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:08:14] Michaell Magrutsche: even though yours were shaped already, you knew this is what I wanna do. But you still, you communicated with your, with your unseen self, with your inspiration. And said, How you gotta put it together? How you're gonna do it? An artist makes the, the essential form of that without a purpose because every purpose, you know, uh, castrates creativity. So, so an artist without a purpose, you're just creating. Your feeling yellow, you feel like nature, you feel like painting, you feel like this music, and you just create it and you start a conversation with your unknown.

[00:08:52] Uh, with the un phys, the, the nonphysical to the physical, it's your higher self, it's your way to the universe. I think it's a, it's a higher knowledge than knowledge because before thought becomes a thought, this is what you are interacting with. You know, you're interacting with your higher self, with matrix universe, God, whatever. And it's the, oh, it's the way to it. I'm, I'm not, because I, I would never say I know what God is or, or the matrix is. But,

[00:09:23] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:09:23] Michaell Magrutsche: but you, you're starting a conversation that's above thought. And, and what the, why people love it is because they recognize in themselves they have that same muscle, that creative muscle. And they recognize that, uh, what I did with that painting, for example, in my, in the back here, what I did with this painting, they recognize that, that resonates with them in themselves and they never felt like that before. Because I'm saying a song can make you feel like you've never felt before.

[00:09:57] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:09:58] Michaell Magrutsche: And it's like, it's like heaven on [00:10:00] earth, right? It's just, nothing can show you heaven on earth more than creativity because you are reacting to an interaction, to a communication. You're reacting to a communication with, with, with, with the, with the thing. And, and the product is art, the product is music, the product is a, a theater play, the product, and some are better and some more, uh, less because some people create for the market. It's like creating a new bicycle, oh, there's red ones and yellow ones. I'm gonna make a red one, I, I make a green one,

[00:10:31] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:10:31] Michaell Magrutsche: you know? So you just, you just go through the thing and say, What do people need? Ah, they need a, a shoehorn, I create a shoehorn that is different, yeah? And that's,

[00:10:40] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:10:40] Michaell Magrutsche: and that's your creativity. But it's, it's all, it's already decided. And every time you try to funnel something through, through the, for a market, it's very limited.

[00:10:51] It's, it just can't. That's why you, you have this discovery of, years after the artist is dead, you have to discover it, Oh, shit,

[00:11:00] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:11:00] Michaell Magrutsche: that was good. This musician was, he was beyond our time. Now we understand, you know?

[00:11:07] Ed Watters: Yep.

[00:11:08] Michaell Magrutsche: But, but it comes all from the same source, from us, from all of us, you know?

[00:11:12] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:11:13] Michaell Magrutsche: So, so, so I think all that, so I work in my, because I have no education, you know, I, I mean, I have high school, but I, I don't have any special education or anything. And I learned how to communicate with that, you know? To, to, to, to, with the unseen self or with wisdom, you know? Knowledge that's higher, that's on a higher, and say, What, what am I gonna do here? You know, asking questions, feeling out, and then get the, the, the feedback, you know? And, and, and, and I think a high, I think a high north because systems haven't given us a birth. Uh, we must keep looking for humanity, at nature because they were created best. We need to see that guidepost on the wisdom is there not from something we created.

[00:12:11] Ed Watters: Yeah. Well, you know Michaell, I think throughout the years, you, you've said it best when you started there, that artists created the world from bridges to homes, to cathedrals, everything. Everything is created by artists because it's a thought first and that thought is special. See, so, I, I think we have been taught to fear expression and that, that's very critical for people to understand, expression is the most powerful thing that we have. Learning to express yourself in a way that people are accepting of that, is so critical. It starts with defining art, a lot of people don't define art properly. How do you define art for us, please, Michaell?

[00:13:09] Michaell Magrutsche: Ed, exactly the same thing, it's we haven't defined art, right? I say art is a conversation. It's a physical manifestation of, it's like wisdom. Wisdom, you can't write down wisdom. There's no language that describes wisdom. Wisdom is, is in the space between words. It's, it's in the space between, that's why they call it, conversation is so important because you and I, it's, you know, scientifically proven that you, we, you and I alter our brains while we are talking. So, um, so it's, it's, it's a higher form of knowledge.

[00:13:48] It's, it's something that's, that's non-physical and physical at the same thing, that's wisdom. And art is the same thing because that's your story. It, it's just when, when you interact with it, the product is the conversation that you have is the product, is the statue, is the painting, is the music. And then you bring it to the market, which is a completely separate, and that's why the definition you asked me,

[00:14:11] that's a very good question. What, what you, what we perceive, I, I just got that too, you know? Uh, what we perceive as art world is actually the art business. Because it's always in systems, it's connected to a system. So if religion says this is the best, uh, stained glass creator in the world, then you would be the best, uh, thing

[00:14:40] and then you should be paid a lot. If you're not, not, you know, I mean, there's a lot of musicians, you know, there's, there's, there's poets, there's all this stuff out there that's not acceptable, it's system. So the art business is what the, it, it's collecting the products that are accepted by the masses as by the by, by the society, which is another system.

[00:15:07] And, and, and therefore it does markets value there. So if something doesn't sell, it goes, sells off, you know, on the Sotheby's or something. All the second, uh, uh, uh, thing. You just, it just, it just sells off. If something is hot, 10 people want it, you know? I mean,

[00:15:26] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:15:27] Michaell Magrutsche: you know, Disney just went on to, I'm just saying Kinkade had a language that a lot of people resonated with. I don't talk about art, I'm not talking about how good the art was or not. By the way, I think Kinkade was a good painter. But not because of what he did, but I knew he was a good, a better painter than what he showed. But he got famous with his little, you know, Hansel and Gretel, woodsy fairy houses with the lights and stuff.

[00:15:56] And, and they saw a system and other systems, so, Hey, that sells. A gallery's first and, and a system. And Disney bought him, Disney just slammed, slammed on him. And so it was a product that could be, you know, it's like you, 10 people making a bicycle and the one person sells this bicycle like crazy and the others have no idea why. But in business you don't, you're not taking it personal because in business you say, Hey, that's business. You know that's, you, you have the correct system thought of saying, Hey, we throw it out there, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, doesn't, right?

[00:16:32] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:16:33] Michaell Magrutsche: And so,

[00:16:33] Ed Watters: Bounce it off the wall.

[00:16:35] Michaell Magrutsche: But as an artist, you have this magical experience of creating. So I'm going back to the other system, the creating of art. And there you, the creation or creating of art, there you have that magical experience with back and forth and see how, while you're doing it even, what comes in. You know, you, you start with a blank canvas and you say, How, what, where I'm putting it in? I'm putting yellow in, or, or green or, or blue. And then all of a sudden you say, Ah, what, what would fit to that? Ah, burgundy,

[00:17:08] I would put burgundy in that. Oh, what would fit in? I would put this in. So you have to, but that's the great thing, because while you're doing that you can't think about, my wife is, my, my wife, does my wife, uh, wants me to do this. Do I have to pay the bills? That's my bossman. Because you have to focus on the conversation and you, while you're focusing on the conversation, it pushes you into the moment.

[00:17:35] And that's actually when your aligned. And systems always take you out of the moment because everything is in the future. So you enjoy, so, so, so the people love creating and that's why you have the CEO that works 80 hours a, a week on the weekend. He thinks in his car, he thinks in his car, or goes in his yard or, or, you know, or, or thinks on other things.

[00:18:00] So this is, art is basically, let me, let, let me try a, a, a definition. Art is, first of all, art is only one thing. It wants to be, it wants to be, it just wants to be created and exposed. I found, I condensed it down to art is, it wants to be created and wanna be exposed. That's what art is. It doesn't say it needs to be a bestseller, it doesn't need to see, say it needs to be the Mona Lisa, it doesn't say anything. It just wants you,

[00:18:33] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:18:34] Michaell Magrutsche: like you doodle around, like yeah, you take a a, a, a pen and doodle around. It just wants to be created. And then expose it, show that doodle to your partner or to whatever, you know? Uh, to your kids and then show it to one person.

[00:18:48] It doesn't, that's all. Because the, the, the physical, see the art is, it's the one thing is, the, the pulling it in, manifesting it with the withdrawing and then exposing it because the other person is then in the physical already. So, so you, you basically, the, the, in between the nonphysical and the physical, and then you show it or listen, have him listen to it and you see the reaction. And the reaction is neutral because art doesn't want to be loved or hated. It just,

[00:19:24] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:19:24] Michaell Magrutsche: it's just the, the, it's a process. I think art is actually a process. It's, it's, it's that process of bringing that in and then exposing it but not to be successful, not to have a target and need to make the art that everybody likes. I thought that. I thought that, that I need to do it and, and, and I was thinking, and then when I changed it, when I realized that, I said, No, I create what I want. What, what makes me, because I think it's the greatest thing. Would you, the people say, Oh, my painting is $5,000. Would you buy your own painting for $5,000? [00:20:00] You, you know what I mean? I'm, I'm, I'm,

[00:20:01] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:20:02] Michaell Magrutsche: You always say, Would you pay for that? And that doesn't mean it's not worth anything. It, it means it's worth, perhaps it's ten times more worth, but would you pay for it? And I think you know when you're lying to yourself when you say it should be $10,000 and you wouldn't pay $10 for it. Because there's a lie in there, you know?

[00:20:24] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:20:25] Michaell Magrutsche: So, so,

[00:20:26] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:20:27] Michaell Magrutsche: So that, that's the best definition of art that I can give. And, and, and just, I say, I would say, Everybody that's listens, the art that you know as art, is the art world and the, the art world is a, is a business, it's a system. It's not the creation of art. The creation of art

[00:20:44] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:20:44] Michaell Magrutsche: is separate, it's completely separate.

[00:20:47] Ed Watters: Yeah. So you'll, you'll always find the pleasure in the process and that, that's where you wanna be,

[00:20:54] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:20:54] Ed Watters: it's so unique. Uh, you know, let's talk a little bit about the painting behind you because I really enjoy what it's saying to me. And, and each, each person that consumes art has its own definition. But it's so rare that we get the interpretation of who produced the art. So what, what is your interpretation? What is the process of the art behind you?

[00:21:25] Michaell Magrutsche: I did this painting, I would say, 15 years ago.

[00:21:31] Ed Watters: Oh wow.

[00:21:33] Michaell Magrutsche: So I think that's important for you to know too, I did this 15 years ago and think now it's a great background for my Zoom. I've done always,

[00:21:43] Ed Watters: Really?

[00:21:43] Michaell Magrutsche: you know, I've all these different backgrounds, but I just tried it out and then it, it fit. So what I can recall is I love, first of all, I'm a minimalist. So minimalist, what they do is they, uh, offer you, the viewer, the relationship between space. Like the green behind me, the, the chartreuse and the red, and it ends, and the image, so it shows you the arrow, it's very easy, we, you recognize it's an arrow. But it, it, it offers you the interaction.

[00:22:30] Actually, what works in this painting is the interaction between space and the balance. So it stays a lot of balance in this. So, you know, the arrow is not, you know, aimed in a, in a tip, it just, it just has two tips. So the top and bottom is also balanced. So I think this, this has a lot of balance and a lot of contrast. So contrast is, is that red with the green and then the blue. So these are harsh, hard contrasts

[00:23:01] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:23:02] Michaell Magrutsche: and they, and they, and they make, uh, they have a lot of energy, have energy so you can't look away. When, but I have a lot of energy, so it's a reflection of me. And what, so when you come in a room and you see one of my paintings, it's almost like you can't see the furniture or anything.

[00:23:23] You're just looking at that painting. So I'm definitely an attention grabber, you know? Um, so you, I, I grab your attention and I want you to then not be intimidated by that, that attention. Because I could do something gruesome, I could do, you know, a nail in the head with something, uh, paint that, you know? And that gets attention too.

[00:23:48] So I wanna get attention by form and function. And then you look at it and then you have to smile because the, the, it's not dark, it's not. So I like the attention and then the relaxation in you that, that you, you, you, you smile. You don't, I mean, there's arrows, but you don't feel the danger in it, you know?

[00:24:11] Ed Watters: Right, exactly. That's a good, good explanation. You know, uh, art, it's always to draw people into what you're feeling and how you're bringing yourself to the world. And it's very tough at times because sometimes when we are artists, we do, we have to bounce so many things off the wall and see what sticks with our audience, what kindles their soul. And, you know, that, that is the true process of discovering and bringing others into your discovery. So, even though you've got so much contrast and

[00:24:57] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:24:58] Ed Watters: I, I would say inclusiveness inside that picture, all in one,

[00:25:02] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:25:03] Ed Watters: there was a major process in bringing that out even if the artist himself doesn't realize it. There's a long drawn out thing that makes you think of these things and, and the psyche of our art is so incredible. I love just studying how people are. Go ahead, Michaell.

[00:25:29] Michaell Magrutsche: So what, what, in this painting, let's stick with the painting because it's, it's, I like that shape, look, the shape. I like that shape, that nipple shape. And I said, wow. And I created just that nipple shape, that's how I, I recall now what I did. So I didn't think about all the stuff that, how I explained it. But, um, I want, I wanted also the people understanding and I think it's, it's up to the artists also to educate.

[00:25:59] And that, that, that it's, so I'm looking after the fact that when I finish this, I just did it by feeling, right? I had a nipple on the bottom, I had a nipple on the top, and I said, I, it's got something missing. If it's just a nipple on top, top and, and the bottom. I need to do something. There's something that needs to be harder,

[00:26:17] it needs to be, uh, uh, masculine energy. And that came out. So I felt that, I wasn't thinking about it. What I told you before was I'm now analyzing what I did and why I did what I did, which is the self-aware art movement that I created in 2015 in Laguna, Laguna Beach. It's called The Self-Aware Art Movement where the artist does not say, I'm gonna create something and call it untitled. Because, uh, art is in the eye of the beholder, it is in the eye of the beholder. But it is,

[00:26:55] and I'm not saying what you should feel, I'm just telling you the functions. Like I, I'm not saying you should be happy or, or sad or, or be depressed when you look at that. I'm just saying, um, explaining to you what I did, how I did it, and, and, and, and explain and verbalize it to you, that, that you understand it. So you get a deep understanding of, of creation

[00:27:19] and especially creation after the fact. Because I think you can't really create, that would be also limitation if you create with, with the knowledge, so with the knowledge that I told you about this. If you would now create something yourself, wouldn't be a hundred percent you because it would be a copy of my initial thing.

[00:27:41] And that's always weak, that's always, you know, that's always the thing. But once you, the more you understand, what are, so for example, you need contrast always because a, a symphony is harmony and dissonance imbalance. So balance is the, is the, so if it's only harmony, it's boring. If it's only dissonance, it's noise, right?

[00:28:04] So, so those things everybody knows, but people don't remember it when they create. So you need to have those two poles if, you know, it, it's almost like when two people talk and one person says, Yeah, I'm a right wing Republican and you say, yes, yes, yes, yes. So, so what was the talk about? It was a system talk.

[00:28:30] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:28:30] Michaell Magrutsche: There was not, you know, or, or, or discussing stuff in a system. Where's the human? The human aspect is the most important in nature, that's the highest truth. And it's never talked, it's, it's, it's never talked, it's a, a tax bill, this, this, it's never talked about. So what is the effect? And see, this wisdom takes the whole, our humanity and nature also.

[00:28:56] But how does it effect? We see a problem, of course we have to go in our mind to see, okay, where's the problem? The problem is right here, let's talk about the problem. But then also we have to have awareness, how does it affect secondary, third, third theory, you know, uh, impact.

[00:29:15] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:29:16] Michaell Magrutsche: How is it effecting humans? The ripple effect. You can't just say, because if you just fix the hole, it, it's, it's not gonna, it's, it's gonna get bigger. The, the problems get and you see what we, what, I think that's what you explained of that, we are so tired and I think,

[00:29:34] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:29:35] Michaell Magrutsche: because we're working two energy. One is the system energy, which is stagnant and it's 24/ 7 alive. And then there's the organic human in nature that need cycles, periods,

[00:29:49] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:29:49] Michaell Magrutsche: Uh, uh, seasons, a need to sleep.

[00:29:54] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:29:54] Michaell Magrutsche: And you, and that doesn't work, and it doesn't work.

[00:29:57] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:29:57] Michaell Magrutsche: These two systems don't work. A [00:30:00] static, we need to make the static systems adaptable for humans. Not humans, I mean, that's, I think the, the big pivot that is happening right now, we need to take the systems, we need systems, of course, we need to try it, but we need to make them system adaptable. And not that the only way to reset system is a war, a crisis, uh, you know, a devastation, uh, you know, uh, a depression.

[00:30:29] Ed Watters: That's right. That's right.

[00:30:31] Michaell Magrutsche: That's, it has to adapt where humans can live. I mean, your parents and my parents, they lived, they worked hard, but they had money on the side and they could go on a vacation. Today it, you work to survive, right? You don't, you don't, you don't work to live anymore. So,

[00:30:50] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:30:50] Michaell Magrutsche: so the system ultimately pushed always, because economy needs to grow. So where is it taking from? From humans. We, we officially don't work less hours, but we are always busy. We, we have never been so busy and it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It destroys us and we are not conscious. That's why I'm saying we don't need to change anything, we need to just be conscious. And art is one of those things that teach, all the shit that I tell you right now, all through art, through creation.

[00:31:20] Ed Watters: Yeah. Well that's, that's so powerful, Michaell. That, and you have to remember that's how, uh, forward progress actually happens that is

[00:31:29] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:31:29] Ed Watters: acceptable to everyone. Because

[00:31:32] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:31:32] Ed Watters: when we include everybody, like you were talking about, this process is an inclusionary process and we have to bring everyone in. Because instead of being a number, uh, where they place a value on you with a number, your worth is in your process, your thought,

[00:31:54] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:31:54] Ed Watters: your creativity. And you have to remember when we build these systems that you talked about, we have to include people with their systematic approach to life and,

[00:32:07] Michaell Magrutsche: Exactly.

[00:32:08] Ed Watters: and then we, we have that harmony, that balance that we resonate well together with each other. And that's so important and we don't do that. We've, we've been, uh, jabbing each other, we've been fighting each other. We've gotta stop that and, uh, don't let that clouded illusion rattle our world because we built this world and it has been through inclusionary art. And that, that, that hold back thing that we talked about where, you know, you're only accepted if the state says you've got value.

[00:32:51] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:32:52] Ed Watters: That

[00:32:52] Michaell Magrutsche: The system says you have value. You, you, uh,

[00:32:55] Ed Watters: That's right. That's right. We've gotta cut that out. And, and I, I really do sense a rediscovery process in the world, Michaell. Where

[00:33:05] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:06] Ed Watters: we are trying to learn and discover how to manifest ourself back into this world in the proper way, you know, because violence is not going to fix the issues that is in our world today, for sure. And, and the only way we can take it back in a sensible, meaningful way is inclusion. Everybody has to have their part in this world.

[00:33:39] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:33:40] Ed Watters: That way they feel worth, they have a value. And it,

[00:33:45] Michaell Magrutsche: Because we don't know

[00:33:46] Ed Watters: and feel good.

[00:33:48] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah. Yeah. And we don't know it. I'm saying, the beggar on the street in New York or in Chicago has,

[00:33:56] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:33:57] Michaell Magrutsche: has a purpose. He, that he at, he touches, uh, millions of people that walk by him, walk around him, don't want to think about him, you know, ignore him, but he affects those people. And because we don't know how he affects them, we say he's worthless. He shouldn't, he should get a job. He should get, you know, should do things.

[00:34:18] I mean, we all have things because we are not aware of it and we know we are not aware. Our knowledge is very limited and then we see it in the Covid, we see it in the war. We are very limited in our knowledge and we also, we don't even know how the system, human, this is my next book that I'm doing, The Smart of Art, How to Use Creativity.

[00:34:43] Um, how, we, we are run, everything is system, right? Everything, we, we, we, we, we, we get born and we come onto an escalator and it's Macy's, that's the world, or it's India, where it's whatever,

[00:34:56] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:34:56] Michaell Magrutsche: you know?

[00:34:57] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:34:57] Michaell Magrutsche: And that's the world and we learned that this is the world. But for example, I saw yesterday, this documentary about where they decided, uh, the, uh, holocaust.

[00:35:10] It's called, what's it called? Vonsay. Yeah, Vonsay. And, and it was interesting. You know how many people decided that 11 million people get killed? You, you should bet, I mean, it's really, it's really scary. 15 people, and they were not uneducated. There were eight of them were, had, had, uh, titles.

[00:35:36] It's, and you know, and, and this is what, you know, what I just thought overnight, you know, because it's, this is insane. 15 people kill, make a start and make decisions that 11 million people get killed in the gruesome way. Because they weren't just shot or, or gassed, they were just hungered down, deported.

[00:36:00] They had massive trauma. And I say, because I know, I'm a political advisor too, so I know that 10% of statistics, it doesn't matter if you were Jesus or Moses or whatever, 10% of humans will be against you. And, and so when this, see the, the, the, the scary thing of this system is when these 10%, and we need those 10% because they're, they are, they'll make us think about our status quo. They make us, so, so I'm not saying, I'm inclusive, I'm saying we include those 10%.

[00:36:40] Ed Watters: Yes.

[00:36:40] Michaell Magrutsche: But our, because our limited, limited systems that are manmade are not considering that these 10% can all also be on top of systems. And when those 10% that are against humanity get through a system, because system makes you hide, right? Who, who hasn't, that the, the, the official, the the, uh, um, employee, government employee use their force to do things against or for them. So it it, you use your hide behind the system. In a normal situation, if somebody wants to affront you or something, you either slap him or you run away, or you, you react.

[00:37:24] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:37:24] Michaell Magrutsche: I mean, if I, if I start freaking out right now, you have a human capacity to react to me in a way that either turn me off, or, or talk to me, or yell at me, or whatever. You will know, you have the wisdom, not the knowledge, what you're gonna do if I'm gonna freak out right now, you know? So,

[00:37:43] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:37:43] Michaell Magrutsche: But it, through systems, through system there are rules and regulation and other system. And so you can hide behind system and that's why a lot of people hide behind them. Like, uh, if you're not enough already, you know, the, the security cop that has failed his whole life and now he's, he's put in a, a position of power. And the, the, the, the scary thing is that we need to make systems that, even if somebody like that comes on the purpose, he cannot harm

[00:38:14] Ed Watters: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:15] Michaell Magrutsche: that man. And I think that was the core of the problem, we were so, and you know what the propaganda Hitler did? I mean, I'm not talking about Hitler, about him,

[00:38:25] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:38:25] Michaell Magrutsche: I'm saying, the propaganda,

[00:38:27] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:38:27] Michaell Magrutsche: it was like a movie. Everybody was like, we love shiny things, we, in nature there's almost no shiny things, but we love shiny things. Oh my God. Uh, you know, it's, it, and you look at, you look at, you look at Apple or Nike or, or a brand, oh my God, it's much better than me. It's, it's, I mean, bullshit. It is created by human and you are part of that race. You are not actively, uh, created by Nike, but you are, you know, you, you are part of that, that race that created that.

[00:39:01] And, and, and it's wonderful, it should give you a jolt of how good we are. And then go into the war, into Ukraine and say, Oh my God, we killed 80,000, 80,000 soldiers alone by decision of somebody, by a decision. And I tell you, these people that are assholes are not dark. Forget all the dark, and devilish, and, and bullshit, they're disturbed. Or they're one of those 10% that are against everything.

[00:39:31] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:39:31] Michaell Magrutsche: And, and so, so it's not because, you know, if, if you see it's dark and whatever, and people are fear, you know. It's, it's just, you know, it's not dark, or fear, or devil. It's, it's, it's, it's like we created the devil too, it's, it's like,

[00:39:44] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:39:44] Michaell Magrutsche: We created that because we monitored fear and we are so adaptable. So if all of the people that are around us have fear of the devil, then we also have fear of the devil. But it's, it's, it's a mind construct, it's not a, it's a [00:40:00] system mind construct, you know? So these people are disturbed. They're just disturbed humans or they are the, one of the 10% that are, they're against everything. And they, they, but, that's in their dna.

[00:40:12] You can't take that out, you can't wash that out, you can't, uh, reform them. And I would never wanna reform them because you need those 10% that're against everything. You need the critics, you need them. It's a part of us that, you see, you see a duality, you know? Uh, it's like life, life isn't sunshine every day, you know? And that's the biggest lie, when you get older like you and I, right? You find out. And that's the biggest lie is, the world is sunshine. If it's not, we have a pill, we have a Ferrari, and we have a face job for you, you know?

[00:40:47] Ed Watters: That's right. That's about it.

[00:40:50] Michaell Magrutsche: It's a completely, so we all push ourselves, you know?

[00:40:54] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:40:54] Michaell Magrutsche: We push ourselves into the future instead of enjoying the, the moment that we have right now, you know? That, that is,

[00:41:02] Ed Watters: That's so important.

[00:41:03] Michaell Magrutsche: That is the, I'm not thinking about, you know, oh, I have to, I mean, I could think, I have a, a lunch coming up, but I, I'm not even thinking about this. I, I don't even,

[00:41:12] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:41:13] Michaell Magrutsche: It doesn't, Ed.

[00:41:14] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:41:14] Michaell Magrutsche: I have to literally stop myself from saying, What do I have to, Oh, okay. But it doesn't, it doesn't.

[00:41:19] Ed Watters: Living in the present, that, that's important. Living in the present. You know,

[00:41:24] Michaell Magrutsche: I've only, you've only this moment.

[00:41:27] Ed Watters: It's, it's very interesting the, I wanna just kind of back up to where you were there

[00:41:35] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:41:35] Ed Watters: and talk about a psychological experiment that was done, I believe it was in the sixties, and it was because of Hitler and the,

[00:41:46] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:41:47] Ed Watters: the power that just went through Nazi Germany. It's called the Milgram Experiment, have you heard about that?

[00:41:56] Michaell Magrutsche: I've heard of it. I couldn't place it. Now I don't know what I've heard of it, but I, I, I can't place it.

[00:42:01] Ed Watters: It's, it's student/ teacher. And there was a teacher and there was a student, the student was in on it. And the teacher had to teach the student when they got wrong answers, they would give them a jolt of electricity. And how far people would go because the person in the white coat said, Well, you have to continue the experiment, everything depends on you doing this. Who's gonna take responsibility? I'll take responsibility. The relinquish right there of that responsibility, when we don't own up to what we're doing and we don't have the fortitude to say, I'm not doing that, I don't care about your power. That's so important. And I, I always talk about the Milgram experiment because it's gonna save us if we are aware of this power play in our head.

[00:43:06] Michaell Magrutsche: Exactly. The awareness, it's all in the awareness. And, and that was also in, in, in, in the thing, if you don't take respon, don't have to, uh, take responsibility,

[00:43:17] Ed Watters: Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:19] Michaell Magrutsche: There is some,

[00:43:19] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:43:20] Michaell Magrutsche: a real magical shift happening that we don't understand.

[00:43:24] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:43:25] Michaell Magrutsche: Because you can, and that's what I'm saying with, that's why system, we really need to understand the system, human demand.

[00:43:32] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:43:32] Michaell Magrutsche: Because in systems you can be the, you know, the guy that, that started the Auschwitz, I don't know what's his name was, it was not a famous name, it was not Goebbels or anything. This was,

[00:43:44] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:43:44] Michaell Magrutsche: he played, had three kids, so he had a family, he played the violin, he did, uh, gymnastics. But the, the moment,

[00:43:56] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:43:56] Michaell Magrutsche: He came in, into the system, he was a, he was like, he, it's, and they call it in, in Germany they call it, whatever it, so means basically taught, taught, uh, uh, toughness. So taught like, like a, a military. Yeah, like

[00:44:16] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:44:17] Michaell Magrutsche: you can teach. And that's why I'm saying it's the third human superpower is the adaptability, because you can adapt as a human. And, and that's why I also say in the same breath, I say, we are so afraid of robots and ai. We need to be afraid of turning humans into robots. Because for humans, the limitless creativity to being as nasty as you, you cannot, if you am, you say, Hey, I'm gonna go and just nurture nastiness, it's endless. Because creativity doesn't care how it's gonna be created, it, it, it's gonna be created.

[00:44:56] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:44:58] Michaell Magrutsche: So to the point, you can never be as nasty as a human being.

[00:45:04] Ed Watters: That's right.

[00:45:05] Michaell Magrutsche: And that's why we need to change the thing because humans don't want it. Like I said, Humans want to be benevolent, they wanna be together 90%. The 10% are the thing. So why we need to be aware of this? We need to not allow, these are wrong, these are right, there's a system. In the system of Democrats, the Republicans, who cares? In the system

[00:45:30] you can say, Hey, me as a human in the system, I like Republicans, I like Democrats, I like the Alternative party. But that's a system talk that should never be personal, never. It's just like saying, Hey,

[00:45:44] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:45:45] Michaell Magrutsche: We think and said, and what is the correlation? Humans. Republicans, that should be the discussion. Humans. Democrats, what, which one is helpful for a debt? Not which one is better for the, for another system, the economy, uh, your, uh, retirement or whatever. Which all systems, one is the relevance of Republicans, Democrats, uh, doctors, whatever in the human context. That's, that's, that should be the question that they should answer. Not, oh, we gotta get you a cheaper healthcare, or we're gonna get you more retirement, or give you a bigger salary, or whatever. It's bullshit.

[00:46:29] Ed Watters: It, it's funny, Michaell, you, you say that because that's what our political realm is really lacking right now is context. You know, they're, they're afraid to fill in the blanks. You know, you've seen so many bills passed that, you know, you don't know what's in there and, and you'll figure it out after it's passed.

[00:46:52] You know, they've even stated that. And I, I don't believe in politics as, as the world does anymore because it's so divisive. And, and I, I think when we start getting into conversations, this is where we find inclusion and we dissolve the indifference.

[00:47:16] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:47:16] Ed Watters: And that's where we meld into something terrific. And that's how compromise came about and built what we call the United States that ensures the liberty of those freedoms so you can create. And it, it shouldn't be about Republican or Democrat,

[00:47:37] Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah.

[00:47:37] Ed Watters: it should be about the human

[00:47:39] Michaell Magrutsche: humans.

[00:47:40] Ed Watters: experience. That's right. I, I so agree with you. Our, our time's coming to an end and it seems like we just got started Michaell, it's fascinating speaking with you. What, what do you have on the horizon for people, coming out?

[00:47:59] Michaell Magrutsche: I, I, I have really nothing to sell other than making a real good conversation. Uh, you can go on my website, michaellm.com, michaellm.com and Michaell is with two Ls. So michaellm.com. And then you can, I'm working on my, finishing up my sixth book and I am looking, the first thing they, they destroyed in the war in Syria and in, in, uh, in Ukraine, uh, is the cultural good. I think humans here need to be above the cultural good of humans, need to be above any system so that if our ancestors that gave us that, that we can give it to our offspring. We, we can give the humans that come in two or three,

[00:48:50] the arrogance to think, Okay, we are only here for a short visit on this island called Earth and we just ravage and take of everything because of thoughts , you know, who cares? Is, is the biggest arrogance that I've ever seen. And that's why you need to, you need to have your true north, humans and, and nature and, and adjust everything to that so people have a life experience, like you say, a life experience, living.

[00:49:20] Not being system, um, uh, maintenance or system navigators and, and to be, to be humans to, to, to, to be, be real. And by the way, all the, the, all the, um, separation was made by system. First, woman/ man, we couldn't handle, oh, we can't handle woman/ man. Then the system's got more, uh, fluid and then, oh, we, we need to separate in races. And now what we do is currently is separating sexuality. And then they see the fluidity, it doesn't work. Humans are limitless, systems are always limited.

[00:49:55] Ed Watters: Yeah. So what, what, what would be a call to action that you [00:50:00] would have for our listeners today?

[00:50:02] Michaell Magrutsche: Listen to you. If, if you like what Ed and I said today about humanity, about our power that includes, that is inclusive, listen to the 22nd podcast. And, and this, that's all you have to do is just listen to it and think about it. You don't have to think about it, if, if it resonates, your thought goes automatically. But this is primarily, uh, wisdom of humanity. They're all from me, they're not pulled from, from other philosophers or anybody.

[00:50:33] It's all from my books and, and it's free and it's 20 seconds. It's for twice a week, 20 seconds, that's it. There's no advertising to listen to, it's all free. And it just gives you awareness and what we, we said that, right? Awareness is the key.

[00:50:52] Ed Watters: Yes, that's the key and truth on top of that. Be aware of what is actually truth. So, uh, Michaell, how do people find you and get your books?

[00:51:05] Michaell Magrutsche: michaellm.com, like I said, michaellm.com. It's michaell with two Ls m.com. You get, there's my phone number, email, uh, books, broadcasts, social media, paintings, music, everything is up there. One up,

[00:51:25] Ed Watters: Michaell,

[00:51:25] Michaell Magrutsche: back, one up.

[00:51:25] Ed Watters: I love it. Art is so inclusive and when you don't limit yourself and just let the creativity flow inside of you, don't let others judge you. And more importantly, don't let yourself judge you, that's when the magic happens. Sir, I really respect what you're doing out there and I thank you for being part of the Dead America Podcast today.

[00:51:53] Michaell Magrutsche: Thank you, Ed.

[00:51:58] Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational, in any way, please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.

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The Smart of Art - The Power of Art and Creativity 30sec. Bi-weekly podcast https://anchor.fm/michaellart about art outside systems as a human superpower

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