Ron Reich

Transcript

Ron Reich

[00:00:00] Ed Watters: So what primed you and got you into reading ?

[00:00:07] Ron Reich: The best piece of business advice I ever got, I was talking to my boss at the one pharmaceutical where I worked and I made the comment to him about how much I admired my colleague David. And I said, Joe, David knows so much about so many different things. And he said, yes, he does.

[00:00:26] And he said, you know what you need to start doing? If you want to become like that, you need to start reading. He said, you need to start reading leadership books, you need to start reading management books, relationship books about relationships, whatever it might be. And he said, I promise you, you will become a resource to people.

[00:00:45] And the other thing he said was, You know, he said, so many people will say, I don't have time, I'd love to read, I just don't have time. He said, can you carve out enough time to read 10 pages a day? And I was like, I can do that. He goes, good. He said, you will end up reading 10, 12, 13 books a year. And that's been my direct experience, 10 pages a day, and sometimes it's a little more, sometimes I miss it here and there, and that's fine.

[00:01:16] Like I said, though, the 10 pages a day makes such a difference. And again, again, Ed, I'm proud to say I, I love being a resource for people. Ron, do you have a book recommendation for me? Or, you know, Ron, I have a problem with whatever it might be. Nine times outta 10, I'm gonna be able to pull something out of a book that I read and share it with them. And that, and again, I love helping people. It makes me feel good and they win too.

[00:01:51] Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. To learn, we must challenge what we already understand, the way we do that is through conversation. Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best conversations happen with ourself. Reach out and challenge yourself. Let's dive in and learn something right now.

[00:02:43] Today we are speaking with Ron Reich. Ron is the owner of RLB Training and Development, he is a leadership professional of 28 years, and also an avid reader. Ron, could you please introduce yourself, let people know just a little bit more about you, please?

[00:03:04] Ron Reich: Hi folks. Sure, I'm glad to do it, Ed, my name is Ron Reich. Uh, yeah, I mean, uh, my, my, uh, training and development career started a little over, actually, it's approaching 29 years ago now, and, you know, it's something that I always wanted to get into. It was something that I dreamed about and essentially through the back door is how I got in. I began my career in HR many years ago.

[00:03:32] I was working for a small consulting firm, we were all friends. For a number of different reasons, we decided to shut the doors. Uh, I was outta work, and I was going through a pretty nasty divorce at the time, moved back in with my mom and dad. I got a telephone call from a recruiter in Dallas, Texas who would not tell me how he found me at my parents' house. And he had a job with Toshiba,

[00:03:58] long, long story, short. Uh, he said to me their competencies are the opposite of what you are, Ron. He said, they want somebody with a lot of training and some HR, you've got a lot of training, uh, you've got a lot of HR and some training. Get them to flip their competencies and they'll hire you and that's what happened. And Ed, I haven't looked back since, I just have that knack.

[00:04:24] Ed Watters: That's, that's cool. You know, once you get into something that you're passionate about, Ron, you wanna stick with that for sure. And it seems to me, from my research, you're pretty passionate about this.

[00:04:38] Ron Reich: Well, I am, and you know, it's, it's funny because, uh, you know, I, I am an avid, avid reader. And when I, when I first started in, in, in the training and development, I was doing a lot of sales training out of the, uh, out of the gate.

[00:04:55] And I just found myself every time I would finish a class, when do I get to do this again? When can I do this again? And in a book I read that it's called a yearning, which is a very, very, you know, positive sign. Obviously it's like, I just love doing this .

[00:05:16] Ed Watters: Yeah. Uh, it's people helping people and that's what we're about, you know?

[00:05:20] Ron Reich: Yeah.

[00:05:21] Ed Watters: I really enjoy, when, when you came across the desk, it was kind of, oh, wow, leadership, uh, it's one of my topics I really enjoy discussing. Uh, the one thing that I enjoy most about you is you have an acronym, PRD . Could you explain what P R D is for people and how useful it can be in somebody's life?

[00:05:48] Ron Reich: Sure, sure. P, PR, excuse me, I have a bit of a cold, I apologize. PRD, Ed, is part of emotional intelligence for me. The second, the, the second competency in emotional intelligence is called self-regulation. And essentially the way I look at that is that when, when I'm upset, when I'm angry, when I am emotional about anything, the one thing I want to be very careful about is not to fire off an emotional response.

[00:06:23] And again, without getting into too much detail, as human beings, we are wired, our brains are wired that we feel before we think. We have to, because the informa, any information we hear goes through the limbic area of the brain first, where the emotional center is and also the long-term memory, before it reaches logic.

[00:06:50] So we have to feel before we think. P R D ties into this because when I'm emotional, what I always try to do and the recommendation I make to people is, Pause, Reflect, and then Decide how am I going to handle this? What am I going to do? When I pause and when I reflect, if it's necessary and it's appropriate for me to respond on the spot, at least that way

[00:07:25] there is some logic in my response. It's not pure emotion because I'm allowing the brain, you know, the, the, the cerebral portion of my brain is, is there and it's starting to process the information. Another, another thing I like, this is my highest recommendation, if and when it's possible, especially if you're really emotional, is Pause,

[00:07:50] Reflect, how am I going to handle this? Can we postpone this? Can we talk about this in an hour? Can we look at this tomorrow morning? Again, whatever might be appropriate. And I mean, Ed, Ed, I'll ask you, if, if you are, no, if, if I'm your boss and I come to you right now, it's what, 1: 33 Eastern time, anyway. If I come to you, Ed, I can't believe it, what's going on with these expense reports?

[00:08:21] You know, you have no receipts and, and you've been submitting them without receipts. You know that's against policy, whatever it might be. And you want, you know, I'm angry and you and I talk right now. What kind of conversation do you think we're gonna have?

[00:08:36] Ed Watters: We're not gonna have a very good conversation at all because of the emotions involved with the conversation.

[00:08:44] Ron Reich: Exactly. What about this instead? I'm still gonna, you know, you know, as your boss, I'm still gonna be upset. I mean, it's impossible for me not to be. Still in awe, Ed, listen, listen, I'm going over the expense reports and I'm concerned. I'm noticing that you've been, you're still submitting them without receipts.

[00:09:03] It's 1: 30, what's your schedule like this afternoon? When can we sit down and talk about this? And let's, let's just assume, okay, let's just assume you and I get together in an hour or in two hours, whatever. How does it help me, your boss, to postpone this meeting?

[00:09:25] Ed Watters: Yeah. Well, it, it, it's going to actually help you possibly save a good relationship through your employee.

[00:09:35] Ron Reich: Exactly.

[00:09:36] Ed Watters: So yeah, it's a good idea to always pause.

[00:09:41] Ron Reich: Yeah. And, and also, Ed, along with that, it helps me, the boss, because I can calm down ideally. And as the, as the person who needs, who, you know, who has, has some explaining to do, how does it help you? What does it help you to do?

[00:09:58] Ed Watters: Well, it [00:10:00] actually helps me gather my thoughts about why it actually happened

[00:10:04] Ron Reich: Exactly.

[00:10:05] Ed Watters: so I can explain better to my superior what is actually occurring in my life at that time.

[00:10:13] Ron Reich: That's it.

[00:10:13] Ed Watters: And, and it's good communication skills.

[00:10:16] Ron Reich: That's it. I mean, that, that, that's exactly what it is. I mean, it, and it, it, it maintains relationships, ideally, and it allows people to have conversations instead of quote unquote shouting matches or whatever it might be. I mean, it, it just makes sense to me.

[00:10:35] Ed Watters: That's right. So, so emotional intelligence plays a big role in every aspect of our lives when we consider making decisions. What, what is emotional intelligence to you, Ron? Could you explain that to our listeners?

[00:10:54] Ron Reich: Emotional intelligence for me is a number of different things. And I, I look at it a little bit differently than other people.

And, and again, all, what, what I mean by that? The first competency within self, within emotional intelligence is self-awareness. The two biggest aspects of self-awareness, and again, for me, I need to know what my strengths are and what I do really well, both, both professionally and personally.

[00:11:35] I mean, I, I look at it more professionally and I'm very proud of my strengths. I, I, there are some things I do at work really well, and I'm proud of that, and I'm good at it. And every single person, you have strengths, I have strengths, every listener out there has strengths and I share my strengths openly and freely with people.

[00:11:58] And I hope it comes across as confident, not arrogant. I'm a good facilitator, I know what I'm doing. I'm a good resource to people because I've read probably close to 300 leadership books over the past 18 years. And I'm not sitting there saying, Hey everybody, I'm the cat's meow, come to me for everything. No, not at all.

[00:12:19] There are some things I do well though, and I can help you with that. I can, well, I'll just leave it at that, I can help. Equally as important is that I also know what my limitations are and again, I, I, everybody has limitations. I don't like to speak for other people, so I'm gonna make this about me, here. For me, my limitations, I'm not real strong

[00:12:44] technically. I never have been, I never will be. When I'm doing a session, if I'm working with a client or, you know, a group of people and something goes wrong technically , what do you think I need to do?

[00:12:59] Ed Watters: Well, probably the PRD.

[00:13:02] Ron Reich: Yeah. Yes, I hadn't even thought of that, that's right, Ed, that's funny. That's right, yeah,

[00:13:09] Ed Watters: Yeah.

[00:13:09] Ron Reich: It is. It,

[00:13:10] Ed Watters: Emotional intelligence, it is actually one of those things that we deal with all the time. And using that in your coaching, the confidence that you instill in the session, comes from the confidence you just explained. There's a difference between confidence and arrogance and that's,

[00:13:34] Ron Reich: Right.

[00:13:35] Ed Watters: that's really one of the first things that people can sniff out, you know? So a good coach is always confident with what he's going to bring to the table.

[00:13:46] Ron Reich: That's right.

[00:13:47] Ed Watters: I think that's, that's a good trait. Another good leadership thing is delegation. How do you handle delegation in your leadership skills?

[00:14:01] Ron Reich: With, with my leadership skills, I, I am, Ed, a very, very big believer in, uh, the situational leadership model. Uh, Ken, that, that Ken Blanchard and Paul Hersey developed all those years ago. Four different, four different types of, of leadership styles, if you will.

[00:14:23] There are times when absolutely I'm going to delegate and hand something off to somebody. In order for me to be able to do that confidently and, and actually before I even go any further, the key, key, key point here, anytime I'm talking about leadership styles, it is task based. It is about the task at hand, singular.

[00:14:49] If I have high ability and I have high willingness to get the task done, you can delegate it to me. Just give it to me, I know what to do, I'm willing to do it, I wanna do it, just hand it off to me and it will get done, and it will get done well. One of the other, uh, the, the second, uh, skill, if you will, or the second style is called supporting.

[00:15:14] And that's where the person has high ability, except quite often what's happening is that they lack the confidence to complete the task for whatever reason, and it's at that point in time the leader needs to help the individual develop more confidence. Maybe it's just through some recognition, maybe it is just telling them, you know what?

[00:15:37] You're on your own here, you're going to do it. And I mean, I, I, an, an example that I thought was just absolutely fascinating, uh, quite a few years ago now, my wife and I were on a Mediterranean cruise and I don't know in which port we were, and it doesn't matter. We're leaving the port, the vessel is backing out of the port and Captain Tasos comes on the loudspeaker,

[00:16:04] okay, everybody, you can see that we're leaving the port now and we're backing out today. Some of you might be curious to know what I'm doing right now, absolutely nothing. I'm standing here drinking a cup of coffee as I watch Ed, second in command of the vessel, back us out, it's the first time he's done it on his own. And he's saying this to everybody on the vessel.

[00:16:29] Ed, you're doing beautifully, I could not be prouder of you right now. And that's supporting, building the confidence. The next level down, if you will, is coaching. And this is where the, the, the individual has lower ability to complete the task. And it's important to understand there's nothing wrong with having low ability to complete a task.

[00:16:56] Uh, and if I have high ability, that's where the leader, the manager needs to coach. You need to show me, you need to guide me, you need to help me, you need to explain things to me. And I mean, there's, there's a quote that I like, and again, this comes from the reading that I do relative to coaching. It comes from, uh, John, one of John Wooden's books, the former Basketball Coach at U C L A. And he, he, he writes, just very, very simply, a good demonstration is much better than a good explanation. Meaning simply to me, you need to show me what to do, show me, and then I can, then I'll do it more effectively,

[00:17:42] then I'll begin to get better at it. And then the last, uh, the last style is called directing. And essentially that is where I'm gonna watch you real, real carefully as you complete a task. Maybe you're brand new at it, maybe you're not particularly anxious to complete it, whatever it might be. I'm gonna watch you very, very carefully as you do it. And then ideally we can move to coaching shortly, and then to supporting shortly thereafter, and ultimately to delegating.

[00:18:18] Ed Watters: That is really the corporate ladder, you know, you start at the bottom and you work up.

[00:18:24] Ron Reich: Right.

[00:18:24] Ed Watters: And a lot of us wanna start at the top and end up tumbling down to the bottom and it's, it's kind of, uh, interesting. You know, leadership, it's a big word and I, I've said that to many people. With it you need truth, integrity, and those are things that in our world is kind of lacking right now. And understanding how to bring that forward in our world today, being a good leader.

[00:18:59] Ron Reich: Yeah.

[00:18:59] Ed Watters: What's the steps to get there and what suggestions do you have, Ron, for the people listening today about climbing that corporate ladder and becoming ultimately a great leader?

[00:19:17] Ron Reich: I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to emotional intelligence here. And one of, one of the, one of the thought leaders is a gentleman, Dr. Daniel Goleman, and, uh, he writes in one of his books, empathy represents the most important social skill to have at work. And I believe strongly, any leader, any manager, any, any individual contributor, anybody in life who wants to do well, needs to have empathy. And, and again, for me, I look at empathy with three separate sections, if you will.

[00:19:56] The first thing I want to do is to understand you. [00:20:00] That's the first part of empathy, let me understand. If I don't understand where you're coming from, Ed or I don't understand your perspective, the best way of which I'm aware to do that, is to ask questions. And just some of the questions, they're so simple.

[00:20:18] And I think a lot of people get hung up on this where it's like, what questions should I ask? Ed, what are your concerns about the expense reports? Going back to that earlier, Ed, what's the situation here? Ed, what am I missing? What am I missing and what, what, and again, Ed, I, I need to go back to this because it, it has just helped me so much in the, in the, in being a lifelong learner.

[00:20:44] Another thing I learned by reading is that I, I know and your readers can, I'm sorry, your listeners can know, I've asked enough questions. I understand a situation when I can tell the other person's story. When I can tell your story, then I understand. And I mean, an example of that for me, the way I like to do icebreakers in, in some of my sessions is just have people introduce themselves to each other.

[00:21:19] They'll talk about some personal things, professional things, whatever. I've run six marathons in my life. I was in Philadelphia a number of years ago, and I was, I got to talking with one of the participants about running during the icebreaker. She said to me, Ron, I could never run a marathon. And in, I, I didn't understand her perspective

[00:21:40] and I did not handle this well, guys. Yes you could, yes you could, it's a lot of work, it's a, it's, you know, a lot of dedication, a lot of training. No, Ron, you don't understand. She's getting aggravated and finally she said to me, Ron, I would love to run a marathon. I've got very bad knees, my doctor said I would hurt myself permanently if I ever ran a marathon. And all I needed to do, instead of the rah, rah, what are your concerns about running a marathon?

[00:22:09] She would've explained it to me, now I know the story, move on. And then the second part, Ed, of empathy is caring. Once I understand the situation or I understand your perspective, then I need to think about all the things about which I care given the situation. And as I ponder that, or once I pondered that, the third and final piece is, what's the appropriate action to take?

[00:22:39] Maybe I'm gonna help you, maybe I'm going to assist you, maybe you need some development, maybe I need to train you more. It's also possible you and I might need to have a real difficult, uncomfortable conversation because things are not going well here. And all of those are possibilities and that for me is empathy. And I think anyone who does that, again, professionally or personally, is gonna make a big difference in the world, just a big difference.

[00:23:11] Ed Watters: Yeah. I, I like what you said there, Ron. Uh, you know, a big part of success is failure and

[00:23:21] Ron Reich: Yeah.

[00:23:21] Ed Watters: getting those big achievements , you need to fail a few times. Could you talk to us a little bit about how your failures complimented and helped you achieve so much in your life to get you to the point where you are today?

[00:23:42] Ron Reich: When I, when I started at Toshiba, things were going well. I've been on board probably under a year, I'm gonna be facilitating a five-day product knowledge sales training course. I denied to no one, Ed, that I didn't know the products as well as I should have. This was so many years ago, this was copiers and faxes,

[00:24:06] okay? On the morning of day two, two people from Philadelphia walked out. You don't know what you're doing, and they left. About two hours later I got a telephone call from Tony Codianni, rest in peace, Tony, uh, out in California, who was my boss's boss. And he tore me apart and rightly so, because I, I didn't do a good job. And the whole point I'm trying to make here,

[00:24:36] the difference that it made in my life, I vowed to myself, I will never walk into a classroom again or any meeting unprepared. I haven't in the 28 years since and I won't because I never want to go through that again, ever. And so a failure actually turned out to be an incredibly good lesson for me.

[00:25:00] Ed Watters: Yeah. ,I love that. You know, when we turn those failures into achievements, that equals success.

[00:25:08] Ron Reich: That's right.

[00:25:08] Ed Watters: And that's, uh, equally, uh, important, that helps us mature emotionally when we

[00:25:17] Ron Reich: Exactly.

[00:25:17] Ed Watters: stand up, own up to our mistake. And then

[00:25:21] Ron Reich: Right.

[00:25:22] Ed Watters: take the steps to correct those mistakes.

[00:25:25] Ron Reich: That's right.

[00:25:25] Ed Watters: So how, how do you, uh, keep that in mind? I, I've heard you tout the five P principles, I, I knew this as the seven P principles. Uh, could you run that out for people because it is so important for people to understand the five P, seven P principles.

[00:25:49] Ron Reich: The, the, the five Ps for me, very simply, prior preparation prevents poor performance. and it is as simple as that.

[00:26:03] And I have, I have 28 years of experience, I'm proud of that. And for every session I do, whether it's for the American Management Association, whether it's for a private client of mine, whatever it might be, I will go over the material I am going to be presenting at least five times before I walk in there. And, and, and many of these classes I have done many, many times before and it doesn't matter to me,

[00:26:30] it, it just doesn't matter, you know? And, and again, some, something else that I'll say is that I, and I, I hope, I hope this will tie in for people. An old friend and mentor of mine made a comment to me one day that I just latched onto, never forgot. He said, Ron, whenever you are doing a class, whatever activity you're doing or whatever you, whatever it is you're saying is important to somebody in that room, it's not gonna be important to everybody.

[00:27:02] It's important to somebody, and I expect you to be at your best 24/7. And I never forgot that and that for me is part of the preparation. Is that I need to be ready because whatever I'm talking about or whatever we're going over, this is important to somebody and I want them to get it.

[00:27:23] Ed Watters: That is so important for life in general, every aspect of life. Proper prior planning prevents poor performance , so I'm gonna keep that rated G . But the seven Ps I, I learned back when I was like 21, 22 years old, that's a few years ago. But it has helped me and it stuck with me and it has helped me achieve so much in my life because I realize the importance of preparing before you step into a situation.

[00:28:07] Ron Reich: That's right. Well,

[00:28:08] Ed Watters: And sometimes preparing is difficult to do.

[00:28:13] Ron Reich: Yeah

[00:28:14] Ed Watters: Go ahead Ron.

[00:28:15] Ron Reich: I, no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, that was my fault.

[00:28:17] Ed Watters: No, no.

[00:28:18] Ron Reich: I, in, in the book that I'm reading right now, just one sentence struck me so hard and it was just very simply, preparation is separation. And I believe that, I really do. I believe my preparation separates me from other people, you know, who walk in, oh, well I've done this class, you know, 11 times before, I'm ready. How many participants are there today? I, I, I, I just, I, I don't believe in that, I just don't. I wanna make sure, again, that I am well prepared and, and that everybody gets my absolute best.

[00:28:59] Ed Watters: Yes. I, I agree a hundred percent. You know, when you show up prepared, you're giving your 110% and you're not relying on somebody else to push you through.

[00:29:14] Ron Reich: That's right.

[00:29:14] Ed Watters: So, Uh, I I wanted to jump into your avid reader portion,

[00:29:21] Ron Reich: Sure.

[00:29:21] Ed Watters: you know, being an avid reader, it, it alluded me for most of my life, and when I started podcasting, I needed to start reading books because I had to talk to people about their books. And, I, I now really enjoy reading. So what primed you and got you into reading ?

[00:29:49] Ron Reich: The best piece of business advice I ever got, I was talking to my boss at the one pharmaceutical where I worked and I made the comment to him [00:30:00] about how much I admired my colleague David. I said, Joe, David knows so much about so many different things. And he said, yes, he does and he said, you know what you need to start doing if you want to become like that? You need to start reading. He said, you need to start reading leadership books, you need to start reading management books, relationship books about relationships, whatever it might be. And he said, I promise you, you will become a resource to people.

[00:30:28] And the other thing he said was, you know, he said, so many people will say, I don't have time. I'd love to read, I just don't have time. He said, can you carve out enough time to read 10 pages a day? And I was like, I can do that. He goes, good. He said, you will end up reading 10, 12, 13 books a year. And that's been my direct experience.

[00:30:51] 10 pages a day and sometimes it's a little more, sometimes I miss it here and there and that's fine. Like I said, though, the 10 pages a day makes such a difference. And again, again, Ed, I'm proud to say, I, I love being a resource for people. Ron, do you have a book recommendation for me? Or, you know, Ron, I have a problem with whatever it might be. Nine times outta 10, I'm gonna be able to pull something out of a book that I read and share it with them. And that, and again, I love helping people, it makes me feel good and they win too.

[00:31:28] Ed Watters: Yeah. So what, what type of reading excites you the most, Ron?

[00:31:35] Ron Reich: You know, it's, it's interesting because really anything to do with leadership. I don't, I don't have one favorite author, I don't have one favorite topic, anything along those lines. I like to, I like to try to read a lot of different types of books about leadership, you know, about delegating, about coaching, about motivating, about, uh, promoting people. And, and you know, what, what's appropriate? What are people looking for? I've read books about the different generations, uh, you know, just all kinds of things like that.

[00:32:15] I've read books about time management, I've read books about organizational development. And for me, that's where I want to be well-rounded. You know, it's, I don't want to just focus in on, and I'm just taking this out of the air, just delegating or just, just effective feedback. I wanna know and I want to be familiar with different aspects because people have a lot of different types of issues. And that's how I can help them best when I'm more well-rounded.

[00:32:45] Ed Watters: Yeah, I, I like that. So tell people about what you offer with your services, Ron.

[00:32:53] Ron Reich: I do all different kinds of things, Ed. One, one of the things about which I am very passionate is emerging leaders. Uh, when, when I was with the pharmaceutical company, again, the colleague I mentioned, Dave, Dave and I, Joe, Joe, our boss, delegated the Future Leaders Program to David and I completely. And it was the most fun I ever had in my entire career.

[00:33:18] I love taking, I love helping people who are new to management, who are new to leadership and are looking to learn, are looking to grow, they're looking to develop themselves. So I have a Future Leaders Program or an Emerging Leaders Program that I offer. I do work with, uh, leadership development and, and current leadership teams.

[00:33:41] I'll work with managers, I do staff level training, I do executive coaching or coaching at all different levels throughout the organization, throughout any organization. And I've been so blessed because I've had, and I've just had the opportunity to get experience in all of these areas.

[00:34:01] Ed Watters: Yeah. Being well-rounded in life sure will carry you far, that's for sure. Uh, do you have a call to action for our listeners, Ron?

[00:34:14] Ron Reich: Call to action for me, if anybody wants to, if anybody wants to improve, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go back to what I said before. Start reading, start reading. And interestingly, the other, the other thing that I'll add, Ed, is I've been, uh, tell just a, a quick story.

[00:34:34] I've been a New York Giants season ticket holder for many years now and quite a, quite, I don't know how many years ago it was, it doesn't matter. One of the core people in our group came up to me, Peter is the, uh, C uh, CFO of a technology company in Manhattan, and we're tailgating saying, Hey, Mr. Leadership Development Man, tell me the one tip, one tip that'll make me the best leader possible,

[00:35:01] what is it? And I was like, Peter, let me think about it. So I thought about it for a little while and I went back to him and, and I was dead serious when I said to him, and I'm, I think this is true for anybody listening, the one tip I would offer, get to know yourself extraordinarily well, get to know yourself.

[00:35:20] Ed Watters: Right.

[00:35:20] Ron Reich: The better you know yourself, the more effectively you will work with other people.

[00:35:26] Ed Watters: That's where all your enemies hide, inside of yourself. So you know, discovering who they are is like knowing your enemy and you've got a way better chance of survival. I love that tip, Ron.

[00:35:41] Ron Reich: Thank you.

[00:35:42] Ed Watters: I, I wanna say thank you for being part of the Dead America Podcast and being here with us today.

[00:35:49] Ron Reich: Oh, Ed, it's been my pleasure, truly. I mean, I, I love doing these kinds of things. It was fun to talk to you, so I appreciate your time.

[00:35:58] Ed Watters: I also appreciate you, Ron. Thank you.

[00:36:05] Thank you for joining us today. If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational, in any way, please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another great episode of Dead America Podcast. I'm Ed Watters your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you may be.

Links

https://deadamerica.website/ron-reich